From matthew at agrip.org.uk  Sun Jan  7 13:26:04 2007
From: matthew at agrip.org.uk (Matthew Tylee Atkinson)
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 13:26:04 +0000
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] mainstream games
In-Reply-To: <000d01c6b9ce$36430040$0b00a8c0@Aaron>
References: <000d01c6b9ce$36430040$0b00a8c0@Aaron>
Message-ID: <45A0F4EC.20202@agrip.org.uk>

Aaron wrote:
> HI is it possible to make mainstream games such as the quake series and 
> doom series accessible!
end-quote

Yes; see http://www.agrip.org.uk/ .

Other groups, such as AudioGames.net and GMA Games, have made some 
*very* good 3D audiogames that are similar in nature to DooM and quake.

Hope this helps!

best regards,


-- 
Matthew Tylee Atkinson <matthew at agrip.org.uk>


From matthew at agrip.org.uk  Sun Jan  7 13:37:47 2007
From: matthew at agrip.org.uk (Matthew Tylee Atkinson)
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 13:37:47 +0000
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] The Future of AGDev
Message-ID: <45A0F7AB.1000405@agrip.org.uk>

'ello and Happy New Year!

Right, down to the subject matter.  I received a notification that 
agdev.org was about to expire in 30 days and realised that I have really 
not been around much lately, as the year seems to have gone by very quickly.

I am concerned that I (particularly my ongoing absence due to the road 
accident I was involved in) is holding AGDev back from being what it 
could be.  So many of you have put what is now so much more time into 
this than I have that I no longer feel qualified to have the position I 
supposedly do (that of being the chairperson).  It no longer makes 
sense; I am out of touch with the community and not doing anyone any 
favours by imposing my ongoing time restrictions and difficulties on the 
community.

I would like to ask you what you think should happen about this.  There 
are two ways I can see it going...

1. We get someone else (or a team of people) in charge and in a position 
to update the Wiki regularly and monitor the mailing lists and I 
maintain a position of technical support.

2. We put the effort we've put into AGDev into the IGDA GA-SIG and the 
other big GA sites out there.

I am not sure what's best for the community.  I think 2 could be a bad 
choice, as AGDev is really meant for the specific corner of Blind/VI 
accessible games, but I leave it up to you---please reply to this thread 
to help us all make our decision.

I started AGDev with the best intentions and they have been picked up 
and carried on by all of you in such a way that I could never have 
imagined.  I am very happy that it is working out so well, but due to 
problems that I am going through right now, you deserve so much better 
in terms of people who should be there to push the enveloped of what 
we're doing.

I am still hoping to be involved in the AG community, because I believe 
my research will have a bearing on it, but I am now in the second year 
of my project and need to concentrate on it, especially after the 
disaster that the back end of 2006 was for me.

Please reply and let us all know what you think.

Best regards,


-- 
Matthew Tylee Atkinson <matthew at agrip.org.uk>


From quinten at pendlepro.com  Sun Jan  7 14:52:39 2007
From: quinten at pendlepro.com (The Train Lover)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 16:52:39 +0200
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] The Future of AGDev
In-Reply-To: <45A0F7AB.1000405@agrip.org.uk>
Message-ID: <001001c7326b$7b9fd3f0$0100000a@quinten>

Hi there
I've joined this list just over a month ago, in the hope to find some
valuable resources and help in my quest to start programming, and
especially making audio games.
I agree that the list was very quiet lately, (speaking for the time I
joined anyway), but I really think that this list should be kept up and
running, as in my opinion, it serves as a vital piece of help to any
newbie who would like to get started in this particular field.

Best regards, and good luck with recovering from your accident and all
the terrible things that go with it.

Quinten Pendle
PENDLE PRO
 
Klerksdorp, South Africa
Tel:  +27 (0) 83 395 4593
Fax:  +27 (0)86 516 0498
Email and Msn:
pendlepro at isat.co.za
Skype:
ahakimbo
Website:
www.pendlepro.com


-----Original Message-----
From: agdev-newbies-bounces at lists.agdev.org
[mailto:agdev-newbies-bounces at lists.agdev.org] On Behalf Of Matthew
Tylee Atkinson
Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 3:38 PM
To: list, AGDev-discuss; list, AGDev-newbies
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] The Future of AGDev


'ello and Happy New Year!

Right, down to the subject matter.  I received a notification that 
agdev.org was about to expire in 30 days and realised that I have really

not been around much lately, as the year seems to have gone by very
quickly.

I am concerned that I (particularly my ongoing absence due to the road 
accident I was involved in) is holding AGDev back from being what it 
could be.  So many of you have put what is now so much more time into 
this than I have that I no longer feel qualified to have the position I 
supposedly do (that of being the chairperson).  It no longer makes 
sense; I am out of touch with the community and not doing anyone any 
favours by imposing my ongoing time restrictions and difficulties on the

community.

I would like to ask you what you think should happen about this.  There 
are two ways I can see it going...

1. We get someone else (or a team of people) in charge and in a position

to update the Wiki regularly and monitor the mailing lists and I 
maintain a position of technical support.

2. We put the effort we've put into AGDev into the IGDA GA-SIG and the 
other big GA sites out there.

I am not sure what's best for the community.  I think 2 could be a bad 
choice, as AGDev is really meant for the specific corner of Blind/VI 
accessible games, but I leave it up to you---please reply to this thread

to help us all make our decision.

I started AGDev with the best intentions and they have been picked up 
and carried on by all of you in such a way that I could never have 
imagined.  I am very happy that it is working out so well, but due to 
problems that I am going through right now, you deserve so much better 
in terms of people who should be there to push the enveloped of what 
we're doing.

I am still hoping to be involved in the AG community, because I believe 
my research will have a bearing on it, but I am now in the second year 
of my project and need to concentrate on it, especially after the 
disaster that the back end of 2006 was for me.

Please reply and let us all know what you think.

Best regards,


-- 
Matthew Tylee Atkinson <matthew at agrip.org.uk>
_______________________________________________
AGDev-newbies mailing list
AGDev-newbies at lists.agdev.org
http://lists.agdev.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/agdev-newbies



From rbennett at southlink.us  Mon Jan  8 02:46:48 2007
From: rbennett at southlink.us (Richard)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 21:46:48 -0500
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] The Future of AGDev
In-Reply-To: <001001c7326b$7b9fd3f0$0100000a@quinten>
Message-ID: <019201c732cf$4b391640$6c0261d0@gadolum18z9hrn>

I think that we should keep the Agdev site up and running. I know I have not
been asking questions and learning lately, but like most everyone else, it
has been a busy time here lately. I have found myself wanting to program,
but when I get a chance, something usually comes up and the time I had set
aside leaves me in a flourish. Anyways, this is my opinion.
Bean

-----Original Message-----
From: agdev-newbies-bounces at lists.agdev.org
[mailto:agdev-newbies-bounces at lists.agdev.org] On Behalf Of The Train Lover
Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 9:53 AM
To: 'Friendly informal list for those new to AG development'
Subject: RE: [AGDev-newbies] The Future of AGDev

Hi there
I've joined this list just over a month ago, in the hope to find some
valuable resources and help in my quest to start programming, and
especially making audio games.
I agree that the list was very quiet lately, (speaking for the time I
joined anyway), but I really think that this list should be kept up and
running, as in my opinion, it serves as a vital piece of help to any
newbie who would like to get started in this particular field.

Best regards, and good luck with recovering from your accident and all
the terrible things that go with it.

Quinten Pendle
PENDLE PRO
 
Klerksdorp, South Africa
Tel:  +27 (0) 83 395 4593
Fax:  +27 (0)86 516 0498
Email and Msn:
pendlepro at isat.co.za
Skype:
ahakimbo
Website:
www.pendlepro.com


-----Original Message-----
From: agdev-newbies-bounces at lists.agdev.org
[mailto:agdev-newbies-bounces at lists.agdev.org] On Behalf Of Matthew
Tylee Atkinson
Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 3:38 PM
To: list, AGDev-discuss; list, AGDev-newbies
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] The Future of AGDev


'ello and Happy New Year!

Right, down to the subject matter.  I received a notification that 
agdev.org was about to expire in 30 days and realised that I have really

not been around much lately, as the year seems to have gone by very
quickly.

I am concerned that I (particularly my ongoing absence due to the road 
accident I was involved in) is holding AGDev back from being what it 
could be.  So many of you have put what is now so much more time into 
this than I have that I no longer feel qualified to have the position I 
supposedly do (that of being the chairperson).  It no longer makes 
sense; I am out of touch with the community and not doing anyone any 
favours by imposing my ongoing time restrictions and difficulties on the

community.

I would like to ask you what you think should happen about this.  There 
are two ways I can see it going...

1. We get someone else (or a team of people) in charge and in a position

to update the Wiki regularly and monitor the mailing lists and I 
maintain a position of technical support.

2. We put the effort we've put into AGDev into the IGDA GA-SIG and the 
other big GA sites out there.

I am not sure what's best for the community.  I think 2 could be a bad 
choice, as AGDev is really meant for the specific corner of Blind/VI 
accessible games, but I leave it up to you---please reply to this thread

to help us all make our decision.

I started AGDev with the best intentions and they have been picked up 
and carried on by all of you in such a way that I could never have 
imagined.  I am very happy that it is working out so well, but due to 
problems that I am going through right now, you deserve so much better 
in terms of people who should be there to push the enveloped of what 
we're doing.

I am still hoping to be involved in the AG community, because I believe 
my research will have a bearing on it, but I am now in the second year 
of my project and need to concentrate on it, especially after the 
disaster that the back end of 2006 was for me.

Please reply and let us all know what you think.

Best regards,


-- 
Matthew Tylee Atkinson <matthew at agrip.org.uk>
_______________________________________________
AGDev-newbies mailing list
AGDev-newbies at lists.agdev.org
http://lists.agdev.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/agdev-newbies

_______________________________________________
AGDev-newbies mailing list
AGDev-newbies at lists.agdev.org
http://lists.agdev.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/agdev-newbies


-- 
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.16.7/619 - Release Date: 1/7/2007




From ksapergia at sasktel.net  Mon Jan  8 19:29:33 2007
From: ksapergia at sasktel.net (Kelly Sapergia)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 13:29:33 -0600
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] Accessing the Toolbox in VB6
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20070108132653.013472e8@mail.sasktel.net>

Hi,
    I've decided to try programming in VB6, while reading Justin 
Daubenmire's web-based tutorial. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to discuss 
how to get to the Toolbox. Is there a shortcut key to access it?
    Thanks.


Yours Sincerely,
Kelly John Sapergia
For a mix of New Age, Ambient, Easy Listening, Smooth Jazz and Global 
Fusion music, listen to "Northern Lights", Thursdays from 01:00 to 03:00 
GMT (Wednesdays in North America) on ACB (American Council of the Blind) 
Radio Interactive at http://interactive.acbradio.org
Visit the show's website at http://nl.ksapergia.net
For high-quality audio productions at affordable prices, visit KJS 
Productions at: http://www.kjsproductions.com
You can also visit my personal website at:
http://www.ksapergia.net



From tward1978 at earthlink.net  Tue Jan  9 00:49:32 2007
From: tward1978 at earthlink.net (Thomas Ward)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 19:49:32 -0500
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] The Future of AGDev
In-Reply-To: <45A0F7AB.1000405@agrip.org.uk>
References: <45A0F7AB.1000405@agrip.org.uk>
Message-ID: <45A2E69C.5070905@earthlink.net>

Hi Michael,
I realize I have had little time to devote to Agdev as of late do to 
three titles under production at nearly the same time, but I still want 
to see Agdev succeed and stick around for a good long time.
I think the best way of doing that is to turn owner ship or control over 
to new management, particularly someone interested, and has the time to 
deal with it.
Sadly though, I had hoped to see more life and vitality on agdev. The 
wiki is still quite  unpopulated with work and articles for newbies. 
Which is something this community badly needs.



From tward1978 at earthlink.net  Tue Jan  9 00:52:54 2007
From: tward1978 at earthlink.net (Thomas Ward)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 19:52:54 -0500
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] The Future of AGDev
In-Reply-To: <001001c7326b$7b9fd3f0$0100000a@quinten>
References: <001001c7326b$7b9fd3f0$0100000a@quinten>
Message-ID: <45A2E766.10909@earthlink.net>

Hi Quinten,
The agdev lists are often quiet unless a good subject gets started. One 
way to find out information is to start a new thread with a question or 
questions, and I am sure that developers with chime in with answers or 
suggestions.

The Train Lover wrote:
> Hi there
> I've joined this list just over a month ago, in the hope to find some
> valuable resources and help in my quest to start programming, and
> especially making audio games.
> I agree that the list was very quiet lately, (speaking for the time I
> joined anyway), but I really think that this list should be kept up and
> running, as in my opinion, it serves as a vital piece of help to any
> newbie who would like to get started in this particular field.
>
> Best regards, and good luck with recovering from your accident and all
> the terrible things that go with it.
>
> Quinten Pendle
> PENDLE PRO
>   



From tward1978 at earthlink.net  Tue Jan  9 01:03:04 2007
From: tward1978 at earthlink.net (Thomas Ward)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 20:03:04 -0500
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] The Future of AGDev
In-Reply-To: <019201c732cf$4b391640$6c0261d0@gadolum18z9hrn>
References: <019201c732cf$4b391640$6c0261d0@gadolum18z9hrn>
Message-ID: <45A2E9C8.3080902@earthlink.net>

Hi,
Yeah, same here. Btw. I'll have to get together with you some time and 
talk C++.
I think your c++ education is probably more up to date than mine.


Richard wrote:
> I think that we should keep the Agdev site up and running. I know I have not
> been asking questions and learning lately, but like most everyone else, it
> has been a busy time here lately. I have found myself wanting to program,
> but when I get a chance, something usually comes up and the time I had set
> aside leaves me in a flourish. Anyways, this is my opinion.
> Bean
>   



From tward1978 at earthlink.net  Tue Jan  9 01:10:33 2007
From: tward1978 at earthlink.net (Thomas Ward)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 20:10:33 -0500
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] Accessing the Toolbox in VB6
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20070108132653.013472e8@mail.sasktel.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20070108132653.013472e8@mail.sasktel.net>
Message-ID: <45A2EB89.7040101@earthlink.net>

Hi Kelly,
Before I answer your question I'd like to make a simple recommendation. 
I really feel you would be best served by upgrading to VB 2005 which is 
current assuming you have a Windows XP or 2000 system.
Anyway, it has been ages since I touched VB 6, but to enter the tool box 
just do alt+v followed by x. Note, the VB 6 toolbox only really seams to 
work with Jaws, and is a pain with Window Eyes. Fortunately, the VB 
toolbox in 2005 works with Jaws, Hal, Window Eyes, etc...
Hth.



From rbennett at southlink.us  Tue Jan  9 15:18:08 2007
From: rbennett at southlink.us (Richard)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 10:18:08 -0500
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] The Future of AGDev
In-Reply-To: <45A2E9C8.3080902@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <000101c73401$731a3ee0$6c0261d0@gadolum18z9hrn>

Hey Tom, anytime, anytime. What I have learned of C++ is mainly teaching
myself since my teacher in C++ decided that he rather teache the other
portion of the class and not the C++ students, he had C, advanced C, and C++
students in there and he stuck with the C and Advanced C students. So I am
not the best in C++, and probably never will be, but I can get by and that
is all any of us can ask for in this world. Anyways talk at ya later.
Bean

-----Original Message-----
From: agdev-newbies-bounces at lists.agdev.org
[mailto:agdev-newbies-bounces at lists.agdev.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward
Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 8:03 PM
To: Friendly informal list for those new to AG development
Subject: Re: [AGDev-newbies] The Future of AGDev

Hi,
Yeah, same here. Btw. I'll have to get together with you some time and 
talk C++.
I think your c++ education is probably more up to date than mine.


Richard wrote:
> I think that we should keep the Agdev site up and running. I know I have
not
> been asking questions and learning lately, but like most everyone else, it
> has been a busy time here lately. I have found myself wanting to program,
> but when I get a chance, something usually comes up and the time I had set
> aside leaves me in a flourish. Anyways, this is my opinion.
> Bean
>   

_______________________________________________
AGDev-newbies mailing list
AGDev-newbies at lists.agdev.org
http://lists.agdev.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/agdev-newbies


-- 
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.16.7/620 - Release Date: 1/8/2007




From matthew at agrip.org.uk  Wed Jan 10 00:37:44 2007
From: matthew at agrip.org.uk (Matthew Tylee Atkinson)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 00:37:44 +0000
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] Re: [AGDev-discuss] The Future of AGDev
In-Reply-To: <45A0F7AB.1000405@agrip.org.uk>
References: <45A0F7AB.1000405@agrip.org.uk>
Message-ID: <45A43558.8030905@agrip.org.uk>

Thank you all for your replies.  It is great to hear that there is still 
a lot of support for AGDev to continue and I think that changing 
positions will be appropriate soon.

It sounds like we should continue as we are, but be on the lookout for 
the right people to be representatives for the place and really push the 
envelope of what we're doing.

I will soon be contributing a lot of documentation and more code to the 
Open Source AGRIP project so that people should be able to build their 
own games without much help.  I'm sure we could link to the more generic 
parts of this documentation (that explain the difference between game 
engine and game code and data, amongst other things) from the AGDev 
Wiki, thus populating it a bit more.

Anyway, I had better be off now, but just wanted to acknowledge the 
discussion that's gone on positively, as it shows that we're doing 
something worthwhile and should continue (and possibly get more involved 
with the other GA-promoting organisations out there in the future).

Thanks once again for taking the time to contribute to this discussion.

best regards,


-- 
Matthew Tylee Atkinson <matthew at agrip.org.uk>


From tward1978 at earthlink.net  Wed Jan 10 01:44:50 2007
From: tward1978 at earthlink.net (Thomas Ward)
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 20:44:50 -0500
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] Re: [AGDev-discuss] The Future of AGDev
In-Reply-To: <45A43558.8030905@agrip.org.uk>
References: <45A0F7AB.1000405@agrip.org.uk> <45A43558.8030905@agrip.org.uk>
Message-ID: <45A44512.8040004@earthlink.net>


Hi Michael,
Once I finish with Montezuma's Revenge and Raceway I'd certainly be 
interested in taking a bigger roll in helping agdev with documentation, 
training, etc...
However, James North left behind a major stink with the above mentioned 
titles, and I think it is esentual to deliver the two above titles 
before former ESP and Alchemy customers begin pounding on my door 
screaming for their money again. I get a few emails of that sort still, 
but the big wave of them for the most part has slackened up since the 
demo of Monty came out. However, I see that as temperary relief.




From rbennett at southlink.us  Wed Jan 10 02:39:56 2007
From: rbennett at southlink.us (Richard)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 21:39:56 -0500
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] Re: [AGDev-discuss] The Future of AGDev
In-Reply-To: <45A43558.8030905@agrip.org.uk>
Message-ID: <008001c73460$aad4dc50$6c0261d0@gadolum18z9hrn>

Hey ya'll, if I can find them, I have some notes from when I took game
programming in C++ and C. If ya'll would like to have them, ya'll are
welcomed to them, just let me know.
Bean

-----Original Message-----
From: agdev-newbies-bounces at lists.agdev.org
[mailto:agdev-newbies-bounces at lists.agdev.org] On Behalf Of Matthew Tylee
Atkinson
Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 7:38 PM
To: AGDev discussion list; list, AGDev-newbies
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] Re: [AGDev-discuss] The Future of AGDev

Thank you all for your replies.  It is great to hear that there is still 
a lot of support for AGDev to continue and I think that changing 
positions will be appropriate soon.

It sounds like we should continue as we are, but be on the lookout for 
the right people to be representatives for the place and really push the 
envelope of what we're doing.

I will soon be contributing a lot of documentation and more code to the 
Open Source AGRIP project so that people should be able to build their 
own games without much help.  I'm sure we could link to the more generic 
parts of this documentation (that explain the difference between game 
engine and game code and data, amongst other things) from the AGDev 
Wiki, thus populating it a bit more.

Anyway, I had better be off now, but just wanted to acknowledge the 
discussion that's gone on positively, as it shows that we're doing 
something worthwhile and should continue (and possibly get more involved 
with the other GA-promoting organisations out there in the future).

Thanks once again for taking the time to contribute to this discussion.

best regards,


-- 
Matthew Tylee Atkinson <matthew at agrip.org.uk>
_______________________________________________
AGDev-newbies mailing list
AGDev-newbies at lists.agdev.org
http://lists.agdev.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/agdev-newbies


-- 
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.16.7/620 - Release Date: 1/8/2007




From ksapergia at sasktel.net  Wed Jan 10 05:29:22 2007
From: ksapergia at sasktel.net (Kelly Sapergia)
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 23:29:22 -0600
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] Re: Accessing the Toolbox in VB6
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20070109232447.0130c2e8@mail.sasktel.net>

Hi Thomas,
    I did have Visual C# 2005 Express installed on my laptop. However, I 
got frustrated trying to get my product key (assuming you need one to 
register the program), so I gave up. What happened was that after I filled 
in my registration information, I clicked on "obtain product key" on the 
website, and was told something like "no key available". I tried looking 
for any other ways to get the key, but couldn't find anything. Do you know 
what to do to get it if it's needed?
    Thanks.


Yours Sincerely,
Kelly John Sapergia
For a mix of New Age, Ambient, Easy Listening, Smooth Jazz and Global 
Fusion music, listen to "Northern Lights", Thursdays from 01:00 to 03:00 
GMT (Wednesdays in North America) on ACB (American Council of the Blind) 
Radio Interactive at http://interactive.acbradio.org
Visit the show's website at http://nl.ksapergia.net
For high-quality audio productions at affordable prices, visit KJS 
Productions at: http://www.kjsproductions.com
You can also visit my personal website at:
http://www.ksapergia.net



From hinn at uiuc.edu  Wed Jan 10 01:12:41 2007
From: hinn at uiuc.edu (hinn at uiuc.edu)
Date: Tue,  9 Jan 2007 19:12:41 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] Re: [AGDev-discuss] The Future of AGDev
Message-ID: <20070109191241.AJH71289@expms2.cites.uiuc.edu>

Great to hear! And Matthew I sincerely hope you are doing well after last year.

My job has mainly been to help serve as a line to/from the IGDA SIG when I hear about things that can help one another out. I can help with the "beyond AGDev stuff" that could really get this group more out there, such as a game accessibility conference the IGDA will be sponsoring, etc to try and get as many of us together in the same room at once and for the others, we'll have AV links. But if there's anything I can do to help keep AGDev going, please let me know!

Michelle

---- Original message ----
>Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 00:37:44 +0000
>From: Matthew Tylee Atkinson <matthew at agrip.org.uk>  
>Subject: Re: [AGDev-discuss] The Future of AGDev  
>To: AGDev discussion list <agdev-discuss at lists.agdev.org>, "list, AGDev-newbies" <agdev-newbies at lists.agdev.org>
>
>Thank you all for your replies.  It is great to hear that there is still 
>a lot of support for AGDev to continue and I think that changing 
>positions will be appropriate soon.
>
>It sounds like we should continue as we are, but be on the lookout for 
>the right people to be representatives for the place and really push the 
>envelope of what we're doing.
>
>I will soon be contributing a lot of documentation and more code to the 
>Open Source AGRIP project so that people should be able to build their 
>own games without much help.  I'm sure we could link to the more generic 
>parts of this documentation (that explain the difference between game 
>engine and game code and data, amongst other things) from the AGDev 
>Wiki, thus populating it a bit more.
>
>Anyway, I had better be off now, but just wanted to acknowledge the 
>discussion that's gone on positively, as it shows that we're doing 
>something worthwhile and should continue (and possibly get more involved 
>with the other GA-promoting organisations out there in the future).
>
>Thanks once again for taking the time to contribute to this discussion.
>
>best regards,
>
>
>-- 
>Matthew Tylee Atkinson <matthew at agrip.org.uk>
>_______________________________________________
>AGDev-discuss mailing list
>AGDev-discuss at lists.agdev.org
>http://lists.agdev.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/agdev-discuss
.......................................
these are mediocre times and people are 
losing hope. it's hard for many people 
to believe that there are extraordinary 
things inside themselves, as well as 
others. i hope you can keep an open 
mind.
 -- "unbreakable"
.......................................


From tward1978 at earthlink.net  Thu Jan 11 08:21:34 2007
From: tward1978 at earthlink.net (Thomas Ward)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 03:21:34 -0500
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] Re: [AGDev-discuss] The Future of AGDev
In-Reply-To: <008001c73460$aad4dc50$6c0261d0@gadolum18z9hrn>
References: <008001c73460$aad4dc50$6c0261d0@gadolum18z9hrn>
Message-ID: <45A5F38E.1040801@earthlink.net>

Hi Richard,
I'm sure they would be of some use, and could be coded by one of someone 
for the wiki.
Although, noone has created a non DirectX section for the wiki to 
support Allegro or whatever the sdk you guys were using for linux.


Richard wrote:
> Hey ya'll, if I can find them, I have some notes from when I took game
> programming in C++ and C. If ya'll would like to have them, ya'll are
> welcomed to them, just let me know.
> Bean
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: agdev-newbies-bounces at lists.agdev.org
> [mailto:agdev-newbies-bounces at lists.agdev.org] On Behalf Of Matthew Tylee
> Atkinson
> Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 7:38 PM
> To: AGDev discussion list; list, AGDev-newbies
> Subject: [AGDev-newbies] Re: [AGDev-discuss] The Future of AGDev
>
> Thank you all for your replies.  It is great to hear that there is still 
> a lot of support for AGDev to continue and I think that changing 
> positions will be appropriate soon.
>
> It sounds like we should continue as we are, but be on the lookout for 
> the right people to be representatives for the place and really push the 
> envelope of what we're doing.
>
> I will soon be contributing a lot of documentation and more code to the 
> Open Source AGRIP project so that people should be able to build their 
> own games without much help.  I'm sure we could link to the more generic 
> parts of this documentation (that explain the difference between game 
> engine and game code and data, amongst other things) from the AGDev 
> Wiki, thus populating it a bit more.
>
> Anyway, I had better be off now, but just wanted to acknowledge the 
> discussion that's gone on positively, as it shows that we're doing 
> something worthwhile and should continue (and possibly get more involved 
> with the other GA-promoting organisations out there in the future).
>
> Thanks once again for taking the time to contribute to this discussion.
>
> best regards,
>
>
>   



From rbennett at southlink.us  Thu Jan 11 15:55:45 2007
From: rbennett at southlink.us (Richard)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 10:55:45 -0500
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] Re: [AGDev-discuss] The Future of AGDev
In-Reply-To: <45A5F38E.1040801@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <000a01c73599$08bb0090$6c0261d0@gadolum18z9hrn>

I will start looking for them. I have no idea how to code them for the
wicky, so if someone can do that, I will see if I can find them. They may
only be the short game codes, but that is what helped me learn.
Bean

-----Original Message-----
From: agdev-newbies-bounces at lists.agdev.org
[mailto:agdev-newbies-bounces at lists.agdev.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 3:22 AM
To: Friendly informal list for those new to AG development
Subject: Re: [AGDev-newbies] Re: [AGDev-discuss] The Future of AGDev

Hi Richard,
I'm sure they would be of some use, and could be coded by one of someone 
for the wiki.
Although, noone has created a non DirectX section for the wiki to 
support Allegro or whatever the sdk you guys were using for linux.


Richard wrote:
> Hey ya'll, if I can find them, I have some notes from when I took game
> programming in C++ and C. If ya'll would like to have them, ya'll are
> welcomed to them, just let me know.
> Bean
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: agdev-newbies-bounces at lists.agdev.org
> [mailto:agdev-newbies-bounces at lists.agdev.org] On Behalf Of Matthew Tylee
> Atkinson
> Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 7:38 PM
> To: AGDev discussion list; list, AGDev-newbies
> Subject: [AGDev-newbies] Re: [AGDev-discuss] The Future of AGDev
>
> Thank you all for your replies.  It is great to hear that there is still 
> a lot of support for AGDev to continue and I think that changing 
> positions will be appropriate soon.
>
> It sounds like we should continue as we are, but be on the lookout for 
> the right people to be representatives for the place and really push the 
> envelope of what we're doing.
>
> I will soon be contributing a lot of documentation and more code to the 
> Open Source AGRIP project so that people should be able to build their 
> own games without much help.  I'm sure we could link to the more generic 
> parts of this documentation (that explain the difference between game 
> engine and game code and data, amongst other things) from the AGDev 
> Wiki, thus populating it a bit more.
>
> Anyway, I had better be off now, but just wanted to acknowledge the 
> discussion that's gone on positively, as it shows that we're doing 
> something worthwhile and should continue (and possibly get more involved 
> with the other GA-promoting organisations out there in the future).
>
> Thanks once again for taking the time to contribute to this discussion.
>
> best regards,
>
>
>   

_______________________________________________
AGDev-newbies mailing list
AGDev-newbies at lists.agdev.org
http://lists.agdev.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/agdev-newbies


-- 
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.16.9/622 - Release Date: 1/10/2007




From ksapergia at sasktel.net  Fri Jan 12 03:22:28 2007
From: ksapergia at sasktel.net (Kelly Sapergia)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 21:22:28 -0600
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] Got It Registered, Looking for Source Code Examples
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20070111211823.0130cc50@mail.sasktel.net>

Hi,
    I finally got Visual C# 2005 Express registered. This time, I used the 
web-based installation program, rather than the CD image I downloaded last 
year. Anyway, now that the program is registered, are there any source code 
examples I can get to see how a program is written? My only programming 
experience was when I wrote some games using GW Basic for DOS while in school.
    Thanks.


Yours Sincerely,
Kelly John Sapergia
For a mix of New Age, Ambient, Easy Listening, Smooth Jazz and Global 
Fusion music, listen to "Northern Lights", Thursdays from 01:00 to 03:00 
GMT (Wednesdays in North America) on ACB (American Council of the Blind) 
Radio Interactive at http://interactive.acbradio.org
Visit the show's website at http://nl.ksapergia.net
For high-quality audio productions at affordable prices, visit KJS 
Productions at: http://www.kjsproductions.com
You can also visit my personal website at:
http://www.ksapergia.net



From tward1978 at earthlink.net  Sat Jan 13 22:24:28 2007
From: tward1978 at earthlink.net (Thomas Ward)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 17:24:28 -0500
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] Got It Registered,
	Looking for Source Code Examples
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20070111211823.0130cc50@mail.sasktel.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20070111211823.0130cc50@mail.sasktel.net>
Message-ID: <45A95C1C.7040804@earthlink.net>

Hi Kelly,
My recommendation is to take yourself over to
http://safari.oreilly.com
and sign up for a 14 day trial account.
Two books I highly recommend is Programming C# and  C# In a Nutshell.
Also if you are a member of Bookshare they have these books in daisy format.
Cheers.


Kelly Sapergia wrote:
> Hi,
>    I finally got Visual C# 2005 Express registered. This time, I used 
> the web-based installation program, rather than the CD image I 
> downloaded last year. Anyway, now that the program is registered, are 
> there any source code examples I can get to see how a program is 
> written? My only programming experience was when I wrote some games 
> using GW Basic for DOS while in school.
>    Thanks.



From ksapergia at sasktel.net  Sun Jan 14 16:28:31 2007
From: ksapergia at sasktel.net (Kelly Sapergia)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 10:28:31 -0600
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] Re: Got It Registered,
	Looking for Source Code Examples
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20070114102650.0130e7d8@mail.sasktel.net>

Hi Thomas,
    Unfortunately, since I live in Canada, I don't have access to BookShare.
    Regarding the Safari service, can you download a complete book, or is 
it just for viewing on the site?
    Thanks.


Yours Sincerely,
Kelly John Sapergia
For a mix of New Age, Ambient, Easy Listening, Smooth Jazz and Global 
Fusion music, listen to "Northern Lights", Thursdays from 01:00 to 03:00 
GMT (Wednesdays in North America) on ACB (American Council of the Blind) 
Radio Interactive at http://interactive.acbradio.org
Visit the show's website at http://nl.ksapergia.net
For high-quality audio productions at affordable prices, visit KJS 
Productions at: http://www.kjsproductions.com
You can also visit my personal website at:
http://www.ksapergia.net



From ksapergia at sasktel.net  Sun Jan 14 17:36:18 2007
From: ksapergia at sasktel.net (Kelly Sapergia)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 11:36:18 -0600
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] Looking For Scripts for Visual C# 2005 Express
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20070114113408.0130e908@mail.sasktel.net>

Hi,
    When I ran Visual C# 2005 Express the other day, I went to the Toolbox 
view, but couldn't navigate the treeview or anything. Are scripts required 
for this program to work with JFW 8? If so, where do you get them?
    Thanks.


Yours Sincerely,
Kelly John Sapergia
For a mix of New Age, Ambient, Easy Listening, Smooth Jazz and Global 
Fusion music, listen to "Northern Lights", Thursdays from 01:00 to 03:00 
GMT (Wednesdays in North America) on ACB (American Council of the Blind) 
Radio Interactive at http://interactive.acbradio.org
Visit the show's website at http://nl.ksapergia.net
For high-quality audio productions at affordable prices, visit KJS 
Productions at: http://www.kjsproductions.com
You can also visit my personal website at:
http://www.ksapergia.net



From seanpm at triad.rr.com  Sun Jan 14 18:46:54 2007
From: seanpm at triad.rr.com (Sean Mealin)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 13:46:54 -0500
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] Looking For Scripts for Visual C# 2005 Express
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20070114113408.0130e908@mail.sasktel.net>
Message-ID: <00d501c7380c$7fec63f0$8705a8c0@spm001>

Hi,
Try this:
http://www.empowermentzone.com/msenv2005.exe

-----Original Message-----
From: agdev-newbies-bounces at lists.agdev.org
[mailto:agdev-newbies-bounces at lists.agdev.org] On Behalf Of Kelly Sapergia
Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 12:36 PM
To: agdev-newbies at lists.agdev.org
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] Looking For Scripts for Visual C# 2005 Express

Hi,
    When I ran Visual C# 2005 Express the other day, I went to the Toolbox 
view, but couldn't navigate the treeview or anything. Are scripts required 
for this program to work with JFW 8? If so, where do you get them?
    Thanks.


Yours Sincerely,
Kelly John Sapergia
For a mix of New Age, Ambient, Easy Listening, Smooth Jazz and Global 
Fusion music, listen to "Northern Lights", Thursdays from 01:00 to 03:00 
GMT (Wednesdays in North America) on ACB (American Council of the Blind) 
Radio Interactive at http://interactive.acbradio.org
Visit the show's website at http://nl.ksapergia.net
For high-quality audio productions at affordable prices, visit KJS 
Productions at: http://www.kjsproductions.com
You can also visit my personal website at:
http://www.ksapergia.net

_______________________________________________
AGDev-newbies mailing list
AGDev-newbies at lists.agdev.org
http://lists.agdev.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/agdev-newbies



From seanpm at triad.rr.com  Sun Jan 14 19:36:33 2007
From: seanpm at triad.rr.com (Sean Mealin)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 14:36:33 -0500
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] moving things around in world arrays with C#
Message-ID: <00ea01c73813$6f894670$8705a8c0@spm001>

Hi everyone;

Can someone please explain to me how I can move people around in a 3d array?

I know how to draw things such as walls and people, but I am not sure how to
move a person one space in a direction.
 
If anyone wants, I can put a quick tutorial together for creating things in
an array; just let me know. Tom did a very good one back a little after this
list opened up; you can also look at that. 

Thanks!

Sean




From tward1978 at earthlink.net  Mon Jan 15 00:43:20 2007
From: tward1978 at earthlink.net (Thomas Ward)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 19:43:20 -0500
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] Re: Got It Registered,	Looking for Source Code
	Examples
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20070114102650.0130e7d8@mail.sasktel.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20070114102650.0130e7d8@mail.sasktel.net>
Message-ID: <45AACE28.7050304@earthlink.net>

Hi Kelly,
With Safari they mainly want you to view the books on the site, but I 
copy and paste the stuff I want to save in to MS Word or something and 
save it. I know the contract says you are suppose to delete all copies, 
but I don't as I feel I paid for it, and I have a right to a copy of 
what I read. Especially, when looking up things for my projects.
Also Safari offers each chapter in pdf format. I am not sure how much it 
costs, but you wind up buying a book per chapter if you go the pdf 
route. So for me copying the chapters or sections from the web page I 
want and then pasting them in to Word is cheaper in the long run as well 
as I don't have to fool with acrobat.
Cheers.

Kelly  Sapergia wrote:
> Hi Thomas,
>    Unfortunately, since I live in Canada, I don't have access to 
> BookShare.
>    Regarding the Safari service, can you download a complete book, or 
> is it just for viewing on the site?
>    Thanks.
>
>
> Yours Sincerely,
> Kelly John Sapergia
> For a mix of New Age, Ambient, Easy Listening, Smooth Jazz and Global 
> Fusion music, listen to "Northern Lights", Thursdays from 01:00 to 
> 03:00 GMT (Wednesdays in North America) on ACB (American Council of 
> the Blind) Radio Interactive at http://interactive.acbradio.org
> Visit the show's website at http://nl.ksapergia.net
> For high-quality audio productions at affordable prices, visit KJS 
> Productions at: http://www.kjsproductions.com
> You can also visit my personal website at:
> http://www.ksapergia.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> AGDev-newbies mailing list
> AGDev-newbies at lists.agdev.org
> http://lists.agdev.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/agdev-newbies
>
>



From tward1978 at earthlink.net  Mon Jan 15 03:44:31 2007
From: tward1978 at earthlink.net (Thomas Ward)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 22:44:31 -0500
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] Looking For Scripts for Visual C# 2005 Express
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20070114113408.0130e908@mail.sasktel.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20070114113408.0130e908@mail.sasktel.net>
Message-ID: <45AAF89F.7090705@earthlink.net>

Hi Kelly,
I have used C# with Jaws 8 and Window Eyes 6 and I don't really need 
scripts or set files to make effective use with it.
To access the tool box do control+w then x.That will bring up the 
accessible toolbox.



Kelly Sapergia wrote:
> Hi,
>    When I ran Visual C# 2005 Express the other day, I went to the 
> Toolbox view, but couldn't navigate the treeview or anything. Are 
> scripts required for this program to work with JFW 8? If so, where do 
> you get them?
>    Thanks.




From tward1978 at earthlink.net  Mon Jan 15 03:49:04 2007
From: tward1978 at earthlink.net (Thomas Ward)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 22:49:04 -0500
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] moving things around in world arrays with C#
In-Reply-To: <00ea01c73813$6f894670$8705a8c0@spm001>
References: <00ea01c73813$6f894670$8705a8c0@spm001>
Message-ID: <45AAF9B0.1040209@earthlink.net>

Hi Sean,
Actually, the way this is done is your class for the player holds the x 
y z coordinates for your player. You then draw in the array where the 
player is based on what is in the variable.
When the player changes location you clear the old player location from 
the array and update the array with the new x y location based on the x 
y z location in the player's location variables.
You should actually have two sets of variables. Such as x1 y1 z1 and x2 
y2 and z2. The 1 variables holds where the player was so you can clear 
out the array and the 2 variable holds where the player will be or is now.
 




From seanpm at triad.rr.com  Mon Jan 15 04:22:18 2007
From: seanpm at triad.rr.com (Sean Mealin)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 23:22:18 -0500
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] moving things around in world arrays with C#
In-Reply-To: <45AAF9B0.1040209@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <013f01c7385c$e1f142a0$8705a8c0@spm001>

HA so you do have to redraw the array each time.... or, at least the objects
that move. I thought it might be something like that; just like redrawing
the graphics for a video game.
Just one more question; (well.... at least for now <smile>) how can I make
an array visible to every class in my program?
Thanks Tom, once again you have cleared up a lot.

-----Original Message-----
From: agdev-newbies-bounces at lists.agdev.org
[mailto:agdev-newbies-bounces at lists.agdev.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward
Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 10:49 PM
To: Friendly informal list for those new to AG development
Subject: Re: [AGDev-newbies] moving things around in world arrays with C#

Hi Sean,
Actually, the way this is done is your class for the player holds the x 
y z coordinates for your player. You then draw in the array where the 
player is based on what is in the variable.
When the player changes location you clear the old player location from 
the array and update the array with the new x y location based on the x 
y z location in the player's location variables.
You should actually have two sets of variables. Such as x1 y1 z1 and x2 
y2 and z2. The 1 variables holds where the player was so you can clear 
out the array and the 2 variable holds where the player will be or is now.
 


_______________________________________________
AGDev-newbies mailing list
AGDev-newbies at lists.agdev.org
http://lists.agdev.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/agdev-newbies



From tward1978 at earthlink.net  Mon Jan 15 05:24:45 2007
From: tward1978 at earthlink.net (Thomas Ward)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 00:24:45 -0500
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] moving things around in world arrays with C#
In-Reply-To: <013f01c7385c$e1f142a0$8705a8c0@spm001>
References: <013f01c7385c$e1f142a0$8705a8c0@spm001>
Message-ID: <45AB101D.4040204@earthlink.net>

Hi Sean,
Exactly. You are constantly redrawing the array to mirror what is going 
on. The only things that don't change is the walls and other immovable 
objects. ?That is how Monty works. The walls, ledges, etc are constant 
but the skulls, player, keys, etc are being constantly being redrawn 
according to what is going on.
As for your second question I don't access the array in every class. 
What I do is put an public object to it in my master class which the 
rest of the game accesses it.
For example let's say you have an object called world that references 
the world classes holding your array and an object player. Look at how I 
do this.

world.Add((int)Characters.player, player.X, player.Y, player.Z);

In short what we have is a global world object which is derived from the 
world class holding our world array. In this class is a function called 
add which adds the player to the screen. (int)Character.Player is an 
enumerated variable which is a special numeric value to hold what item 
is in that spot. player is the object that points to the Player class. 
You referenced your world object calling the Add function, told it what 
is being added with the character variable, and then called the player 
object to add the to the x, y, and z location in the array.
Hth.



From richard at audiogames.net  Mon Jan 15 18:25:53 2007
From: richard at audiogames.net (AudioGames.net)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 19:25:53 +0100
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] Audio Game Maker Update (includes first audio
	impression)
Message-ID: <006701c738d2$97a132c0$6402a8c0@Delletje>

Hi Folks!

Development on Audio Game Maker is still going on. Due to time constraints we fear that we will have very little to no time available for extensive testing. We would therefore like to call the release on February 1st 2007 a b?ta-release. This means that Audio Game Maker is still released Februari 1st but it may still contain some bugs and may not feature some specific functionalities. We will keep you updated!

On a slightly more positive note, click the following link to download an mp3 preview of what Audio Game Maker will approximately sound like: 

http://www.audiogamemaker.com/downloads/audiogamemakerpreview1.mp3

In this preview you will first hear how a new world is selected and how a new player object is added to this world. After that you will hear how a property (in this case the y-property of the player) is set to 1. You will then hear a Portal Object being built at some distance from the Player Object (the Builder moves away from the Player Object). The Audio Environment is then temporarily exited to create a new World. In the World Settings Menu the acoustics of this second world is then set to "cathedral". Then you will hear how the Worldsound and the Moodsound for this world is set. After that a new player and another portal are added to the second world (you will then hear the builder turn 360 degrees in front of the player object). Then we return to the first world and set the properties of Portal 1 so that it links to the portal in world 2. 

Please note that this is only a preview to give you a first impression of Audio Game Maker. Many sounds are still missing and this is *not* the final soundmix. 

Greets,

Richard

http://www.audiogamemaker.com
http://www.audiogames.net
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From matthew at agrip.org.uk  Mon Jan 15 22:02:39 2007
From: matthew at agrip.org.uk (Matthew Tylee Atkinson)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 22:02:39 +0000
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] Re: [AGDev-discuss] Audio Game Maker Update
	(includes first audio impression)
In-Reply-To: <006701c738d2$97a132c0$6402a8c0@Delletje>
References: <006701c738d2$97a132c0$6402a8c0@Delletje>
Message-ID: <45ABF9FF.2090609@agrip.org.uk>

Awesome!  I really look forward to seeing where this goes in the future; 
I think it is such a good idea to put tools like this in the hands of 
the community.  Well done!

best regards,


-- 
Matthew Tylee Atkinson <matthew at agrip.org.uk>


From matthew at agrip.org.uk  Mon Jan 15 22:04:23 2007
From: matthew at agrip.org.uk (Matthew Tylee Atkinson)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 22:04:23 +0000
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] Re: [AGDev-discuss] The Future of AGDev
In-Reply-To: <000a01c73599$08bb0090$6c0261d0@gadolum18z9hrn>
References: <000a01c73599$08bb0090$6c0261d0@gadolum18z9hrn>
Message-ID: <45ABFA67.9070601@agrip.org.uk>

Richard wrote:
> I will start looking for them. I have no idea how to code them for the
> wicky, so if someone can do that, I will see if I can find them. They may
> only be the short game codes, but that is what helped me learn.
end-quote

Please let us know when you do find them; I'm sure one of us will help 
you get them onto the site.

best regards,


-- 
Matthew Tylee Atkinson <matthew at agrip.org.uk>


From pendlepro at isat.co.za  Tue Jan 16 10:17:12 2007
From: pendlepro at isat.co.za (Quinten Pendle)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 12:17:12 +0200
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] .vbw, .vbp, .frm
Message-ID: <000001c73957$83c34920$0100000a@quinten>

Hi all
A little question for you:
 
some years ago I played around with examples of source code some one
sent me in vb6.
Is there a way of converting these files so that it could be compattible
with vb.net at all?
 
Thanks much
Best regards
Quinten Pendle
PENDLE PRO
 
Klerksdorp, South Africa
Tel:  +27 (0) 83 395 4593
Fax:  +27 (0)86 516 0498
Email and Msn:
pendlepro at isat.co.za
Skype:
ahakimbo
Website:
www.pendlepro.com <http://www.pendlepro.com/> 
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From tward1978 at earthlink.net  Tue Jan 16 20:34:24 2007
From: tward1978 at earthlink.net (Thomas Ward)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 15:34:24 -0500
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] .vbw, .vbp, .frm
In-Reply-To: <000001c73957$83c34920$0100000a@quinten>
References: <000001c73957$83c34920$0100000a@quinten>
Message-ID: <45AD36D0.8050609@earthlink.net>

Hi,
Yes. I know the Pro version of VB.NET will attempt to convert VB 6 code 
and later to the current version of VB.NET. However, this conversion is 
not clean and you may have to update some of the application by hand to 
complete the conversion and fix any and all translation errors.
Bottom line translating VB6 to say VB 2005 is like comparing apples to 
oranges. They are only similar in a superficial syntactical sense.
VB.NET has grone to be much more object oriented, depends on .NET more 
than the Win32 API, and any VB 6 application not written with any oop 
style of  coding just doesn't convert well to oop. You'd be better off 
doing the entire app by hand in some cases.


Quinten Pendle wrote:
> Hi all
> A little question for you:
>  
> some years ago I played around with examples of source code some one 
> sent me in vb6.
> Is there a way of converting these files so that it could be 
> compattible with vb.net at all?
>  
> Thanks much
> Best regards
> Quinten Pendle
> PENDLE PRO
>  
> Klerksdorp, South Africa
> Tel:  +27 (0) 83 395 4593
> Fax:  +27 (0)86 516 0498
> Email and Msn:
> pendlepro at isat.co.za <mailto:pendlepro at isat.co.za>
> Skype:
> ahakimbo
> Website:
> www.pendlepro.com <http://www.pendlepro.com/>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> AGDev-newbies mailing list
> AGDev-newbies at lists.agdev.org
> http://lists.agdev.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/agdev-newbies
>   
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.16.12/631 - Release Date: 1/16/2007
>   



From jkenn337 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 17 00:39:50 2007
From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 19:39:50 -0500
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] introduction
Message-ID: <000501c739d0$00730ff0$6401a8c0@kutztownstudent>

Hi,

I'm Josh, and I just joined the list. I'm also on the audio games email list 
at audyssey. I've got vb6, the directx sdk and the msdn libraries I'll 
install when I get my blank cds in the mail so I can burn the .iso files and 
install them from cd like the installer wants me to. I have visual basic 
tutorials but they all seems to be geared more towards sighted people. I 
also looked at the source code for chopper patrol and it looks pretty 
intimidating, probably because I see tons of variables and then when reading 
the code I lose track of what variable does what and what goes where. If 
someone could start me out with something simpler that would be a good help.

Josh

email: jkenn337 at gmail.com
AOL: kutztownstudent
msn: kenn6498ku at hotmail.com
skype: jkenn337 



From GuitarBabe at earthlink.net  Wed Jan 17 03:14:56 2007
From: GuitarBabe at earthlink.net (Guitar Babe)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 19:14:56 -0800
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] A little intro
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20070116190902.00dd7898@mail.onemodelplace.com>

		  Hi All, some of you may already know me from my work with Jedi 
Quake.  I heard about this list through Sean Mealin so thought I'd stop 
in.  <smile>  Not sure I'm in the right place, having already done a pretty 
involved Quake mod, but am learning C#, or I should say, the Visual C# 
IDE!  lol!  The language is easy its the IDE that's a pain!  go figure!

   anyway, hope you're all havin' a wonderful day / evening wherever you 
may be, and catch ya on the flip!...

Smiles,

Cara


-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.16.10/625 - Release Date: 1/13/2007




From tward1978 at earthlink.net  Wed Jan 17 07:31:05 2007
From: tward1978 at earthlink.net (Thomas Ward)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 02:31:05 -0500
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] introduction
In-Reply-To: <000501c739d0$00730ff0$6401a8c0@kutztownstudent>
References: <000501c739d0$00730ff0$6401a8c0@kutztownstudent>
Message-ID: <45ADD0B9.2010907@earthlink.net>

Hi Josh,
The best place to start learning  to program games is to get a book that 
explains the absolute fundimentals of programming. Without the building 
blocks in place no game example will make sense to you. Regardless if 
the language is VB, Python, perl, C++, C#, Java, etc unless you have the 
basic nuts and bolts of the language first you are not going to get off 
the ground.
A wonderful resource, although it costs some money, is safari which is 
found at
http://safari.oreilly.com
which has books on just about any language from absolute beginner to 
quite advanced topics.
The O'reilly books such as the Programming C#, Programming Visual Basic, 
and Programming Python books are good examples of introduction books in 
this field. The next step is the O'reilly In a Nutshell series which 
covers some of the same topics as the Programming series, but can delve 
in to more advanced subjects. The Sam's teach  yourself in 21 days 
series also is pretty good.
Bottom line, you need to understand the principle concepts of 
programming like what are variables, how to you declare a variable, what 
is a sub, function, method, class, operators, you name it.
On the whole Chopper Command is actually an extremely easy game to 
write, and understand. If you are having difficulties with chopper 
command, and then you need more experience in general programming.
Over the past few days I have heard you talk about making Empire At War, 
Lord of the Rings, and other games of pro game studio quality. I have 
news that won't be happening for a few years yet. There is allot of 
training involved in designing that kind of game. Here is just some 
examples.

1. Become reasonably compitent in a programming language.
2. Learn how to use DirectX DirectInput, DirectSound, etc to capture 
keyboard, joystick input as well as make realistic sound environments.
3. Understand a reasonable amount of trig and possably calculus to have 
things operate smoothly and correctly. There is no escaping allot of 
math for writing games. Poor math sstudents make poor game programmers.
4. Delve in to advanced topics such as Artificial Intelligence which is 
a field you could devote your entire life to and never completely 
understand it all.
You could of course use simplistic if, then, else type conditioning for 
your AI bots, characters, but using fuzzy logic would make your game 
characters interact so more much realistically.
5. If you are thinking completely online worlds with huge multiplayer 
games and then you are talking about socket programming, and a fair 
amount of understanding of how networks work and how to at least use the 
Winsock API to send packets over the network and refresh all of the 
clients and server side applications to make the game world play 
somewhat realistically and interact at all.
6. Of course you can often get by with using prerecorded speech for most 
games, but what about a game like Lonewolf where you want to allow the 
player to script his or her own levels. Well, in that case you would be 
better off knowing about the MS SAPI API for tts.
7. If you Were thinking of scriptable levels then that is a whole ball 
of wax  learning how to add a script engine to your games.
8. There is many other things, small things, that add up to important 
features such as serialisation. The process of converting your data in 
to a binary stream and writing it out to a file, and retrieving it for 
saving games, settings, and so on.

What I was saying here with this list above programming games is like 
the mother of all programs. You are not restricted to one field or 
application of programming. To write games you have to know a good deal 
of various SDKs, APIs, research, etc to build extremely advanced games. 
That takes years.
You might be able to crank out a few arcade games, trivia games, and so 
on in 6 months, but you are not going to be doing Empire at War, Final 
Fantacy, Warcraft, in that amount of time until you have really cut into 
some advanced programming fields.



From tward1978 at earthlink.net  Wed Jan 17 08:28:34 2007
From: tward1978 at earthlink.net (Thomas Ward)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 03:28:34 -0500
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] A little intro
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20070116190902.00dd7898@mail.onemodelplace.com>
References: <5.2.1.1.0.20070116190902.00dd7898@mail.onemodelplace.com>
Message-ID: <45ADDE32.9090101@earthlink.net>

Hi Cara,
I am glad to see you here. If you ever solve that problem with the error 
list breaking screen reader focus let me know. That is my only complaint 
with VS 2005 IDEs.
Usually, I crank it out in notepad or something generic, but like you 
I'd sooner just use the IDE for direct coding.
Although, I do use the IDE when doing debugging or massive editing.


Guitar Babe wrote:
>           Hi All, some of you may already know me from my work with 
> Jedi Quake.  I heard about this list through Sean Mealin so thought 
> I'd stop in.  <smile>  Not sure I'm in the right place, having already 
> done a pretty involved Quake mod, but am learning C#, or I should say, 
> the Visual C# IDE!  lol!  The language is easy its the IDE that's a 
> pain!  go figure!
>
>   anyway, hope you're all havin' a wonderful day / evening wherever 
> you may be, and catch ya on the flip!...
>
> Smiles,
>
> Cara
>
>



From pendlepro at isat.co.za  Wed Jan 17 12:50:56 2007
From: pendlepro at isat.co.za (Quinten Pendle)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 14:50:56 +0200
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] A question, and some thoughts
Message-ID: <000401c73a36$2b73c1c0$0100000a@quinten>

Hi all
 
I got hold of a nifty book in pdf format, about vb.net from 
www.homeandlearn.co.uk
this morning.
This particular book assumes that you have no program knowledge
whatsoever, which happens to be the catagory in which I'm currently
falling.
 
My hugest problem at the moment is that they're constantly refering to
graphics to help illustrate what they're trying to explain in the book.
However, once I'm more familiarised with the vb.net interface, I'm sure
I'll be navigating around in it more confidently.
 
My question is:
Are there any tutorials or hints available that will help one moving
objects, e.g. combo-, text- and other boxes around on the form, or maybe
explain how you are to acomplish this, using JFW?
 
Also, as I'm very new to programming, I can say that I'm not at all at
ease with VB, but, I've wasted some 8 hours or so in fooling around with
it, just looking around more than anything.
Would you recommend me to stick with VB, or is VC#, or even C++ a better
option?
Incidentally, I downloaded all 3 the above mentioned express editions
from Microsoft, just to make sure I have something I can work with
eventually.
 
Lastly, Thomas this morning said something I feared, and that is that
people who battle with maths, aren't good programmers.
However, I may not be the fastest learner, but I am determined to
acomplish this.
Determination has helped me a great deal in my life already, and I'm
sure after much time, tears and tissues, I'll get through this one as
well.
(Don't always know whether it's determination, or pure stubbornness,
however!) lol
 
Anyway, thanks for hearing me out.  Any help would be appreciated.
 
All the best
Quinten Pendle
PENDLE PRO
 
Klerksdorp, South Africa
Tel:  +27 (0) 83 395 4593
Fax:  +27 (0)86 516 0498
Email and Msn:
pendlepro at isat.co.za
Skype:
ahakimbo
Website:
www.pendlepro.com <http://www.pendlepro.com/> 
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From rbennett at southlink.us  Thu Jan 18 14:33:01 2007
From: rbennett at southlink.us (Richard)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 09:33:01 -0500
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] A question, and some thoughts
In-Reply-To: <000401c73a36$2b73c1c0$0100000a@quinten>
Message-ID: <006801c73b0d$9b29f3e0$6c0261d0@gadolum18z9hrn>

Hey Quinten, the language really depends on the person who is writing the
programs in my opinion anyways. I can do VB6, but absolutely do not like the
VB language. I prefer the C/C++ language to write programs in. However I
have found that some VB programmers don't understand the C/C++ language and
would rather use VB instead of c/c++ language, I am totally different. So,
in my opinion, you have to find which you like better and go with that one.
Also, I am no math genius and can do programming, but I still have to agree
with Tom on this about being good at math to be able to write good programs.
I find myself when writing some complex programs in class that I am using
some pretty complex math, which most I don't understand, but since I have
the formula given to me by the instructor, I know what it needs to do.
Anyways, hope this helped you.

Bean

 

-----Original Message-----
From: agdev-newbies-bounces at lists.agdev.org
[mailto:agdev-newbies-bounces at lists.agdev.org] On Behalf Of Quinten Pendle
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 7:51 AM
To: agdev-newbies at lists.agdev.org
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] A question, and some thoughts

 

Hi all

 

I got hold of a nifty book in pdf format, about vb.net from 

www.homeandlearn.co.uk

this morning.

This particular book assumes that you have no program knowledge whatsoever,
which happens to be the catagory in which I'm currently falling.

 

My hugest problem at the moment is that they're constantly refering to
graphics to help illustrate what they're trying to explain in the book.

However, once I'm more familiarised with the vb.net interface, I'm sure I'll
be navigating around in it more confidently.

 

My question is:

Are there any tutorials or hints available that will help one moving
objects, e.g. combo-, text- and other boxes around on the form, or maybe
explain how you are to acomplish this, using JFW?

 

Also, as I'm very new to programming, I can say that I'm not at all at ease
with VB, but, I've wasted some 8 hours or so in fooling around with it, just
looking around more than anything.

Would you recommend me to stick with VB, or is VC#, or even C++ a better
option?

Incidentally, I downloaded all 3 the above mentioned express editions from
Microsoft, just to make sure I have something I can work with eventually.

 

Lastly, Thomas this morning said something I feared, and that is that people
who battle with maths, aren't good programmers.

However, I may not be the fastest learner, but I am determined to acomplish
this.

Determination has helped me a great deal in my life already, and I'm sure
after much time, tears and tissues, I'll get through this one as well.

(Don't always know whether it's determination, or pure stubbornness,
however!) lol

 

Anyway, thanks for hearing me out.  Any help would be appreciated.

 

All the best

Quinten Pendle

PENDLE PRO

 

Klerksdorp, South Africa

Tel:  +27 (0) 83 395 4593

Fax:  +27 (0)86 516 0498

Email and Msn:

pendlepro at isat.co.za

Skype:

ahakimbo

Website:

www.pendlepro.com <http://www.pendlepro.com/> 

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From jkenn337 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 18 16:33:11 2007
From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 11:33:11 -0500
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] A question, and some thoughts
References: <000401c73a36$2b73c1c0$0100000a@quinten>
Message-ID: <005d01c73b1e$59426690$6401a8c0@kutztownstudent>

MessageHi,

I am not good at math too, probably because it wasn't taught to me propperly in high school and college. Of course that's why I went to school for Spanish instead of programming. And that's why I'm really looking into the game-makers that let you make games without programming. 

Josh

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Quinten Pendle 
  To: agdev-newbies at lists.agdev.org 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 7:50 AM
  Subject: [AGDev-newbies] A question, and some thoughts


  Hi all

  I got hold of a nifty book in pdf format, about vb.net from 
  www.homeandlearn.co.uk
  this morning.
  This particular book assumes that you have no program knowledge whatsoever, which happens to be the catagory in which I'm currently falling.

  My hugest problem at the moment is that they're constantly refering to graphics to help illustrate what they're trying to explain in the book.
  However, once I'm more familiarised with the vb.net interface, I'm sure I'll be navigating around in it more confidently.

  My question is:
  Are there any tutorials or hints available that will help one moving objects, e.g. combo-, text- and other boxes around on the form, or maybe explain how you are to acomplish this, using JFW?

  Also, as I'm very new to programming, I can say that I'm not at all at ease with VB, but, I've wasted some 8 hours or so in fooling around with it, just looking around more than anything.
  Would you recommend me to stick with VB, or is VC#, or even C++ a better option?
  Incidentally, I downloaded all 3 the above mentioned express editions from Microsoft, just to make sure I have something I can work with eventually.

  Lastly, Thomas this morning said something I feared, and that is that people who battle with maths, aren't good programmers.
  However, I may not be the fastest learner, but I am determined to acomplish this.
  Determination has helped me a great deal in my life already, and I'm sure after much time, tears and tissues, I'll get through this one as well.
  (Don't always know whether it's determination, or pure stubbornness, however!) lol

  Anyway, thanks for hearing me out.  Any help would be appreciated.

  All the best
  Quinten Pendle
  PENDLE PRO

  Klerksdorp, South Africa
  Tel:  +27 (0) 83 395 4593
  Fax:  +27 (0)86 516 0498
  Email and Msn:
  pendlepro at isat.co.za
  Skype:
  ahakimbo
  Website:
  www.pendlepro.com


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  AGDev-newbies mailing list
  AGDev-newbies at lists.agdev.org
  http://lists.agdev.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/agdev-newbies
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From GuitarBabe at earthlink.net  Thu Jan 18 19:05:10 2007
From: GuitarBabe at earthlink.net (Guitar Babe)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 11:05:10 -0800
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] A question, and some thoughts
In-Reply-To: <006801c73b0d$9b29f3e0$6c0261d0@gadolum18z9hrn>
References: <000401c73a36$2b73c1c0$0100000a@quinten>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20070118105117.00e158c8@pop.earthlink.net>

   I'd like to agree here and say that the language is really a matter of 
taste / features.  In other words, if you feel comfortable working with it 
and it has the features that you like / need, then it's a good fit in my 
opinion...  <smile>

   On the maths end of things, code examples are your friends!, as well as 
simply taking a complex operation that you might want to have your program 
do, and looking at it in small pieces.  Then the whole of the operation may 
make more sense to you...

   Look at the whole of a particular task, and then look at it's 
parts.  I.E. getting some orange juice.  You'd first need to get up from 
where you are sitting, walk to the kitchen, get a glass from the cupboard, 
open the refrigerator, and so on...

  in this way, you can make intense math operations easier.  The power of a 
particular language can then help you take that basic coding and make it 
more compact / elegant.  So it would then be really confusing for someone 
else to look at and figure out!  lol lol lol!

   -but you'd now understand what's happening.  <smile>

   anyway, seriously though, don't be afraid to get too basic with a math 
operation either in your head or in your code.  As you learn more, you can 
always clean up your code as you go along.

One last thing, as well as code samples being your friends, so you can see 
how others do things, comments are also your friends!  If you write good 
comments as you're coding a math operation for example, you can then go 
back and know what you were thinking at the time, and thereby, how to make 
it cleaner and more elegant.

   I hope this helps and have a great day!...

Smiles,

Cara
  At 09:33 AM 1/18/2007 -0500, you wrote:

>Hey Quinten, the language really depends on the person who is writing the 
>programs in my opinion anyways. I can do VB6, but absolutely do not like 
>the VB language. I prefer the C/C++ language to write programs in. However 
>I have found that some VB programmers dont understand the C/C++ language 
>and would rather use VB instead of c/c++ language, I am totally different. 
>So, in my opinion, you have to find which you like better and go with that 
>one. Also, I am no math genius and can do programming, but I still have to 
>agree with Tom on this about being good at math to be able to write good 
>programs. I find myself when writing some complex programs in class that I 
>am using some pretty complex math, which most I dont understand, but since 
>I have the formula given to me by the instructor, I know what it needs to 
>do. Anyways, hope this helped you.
>
>Bean
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: agdev-newbies-bounces at lists.agdev.org 
>[mailto:agdev-newbies-bounces at lists.agdev.org] On Behalf Of Quinten Pendle
>Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 7:51 AM
>To: agdev-newbies at lists.agdev.org
>Subject: [AGDev-newbies] A question, and some thoughts
>
>
>
>Hi all
>
>
>
>I got hold of a nifty book in pdf format, about vb.net from
>
><http://www.homeandlearn.co.uk>www.homeandlearn.co.uk
>
>this morning.
>
>This particular book assumes that you have no program knowledge 
>whatsoever, which happens to be the catagory in which I'm currently falling.
>
>
>
>My hugest problem at the moment is that they're constantly refering to 
>graphics to help illustrate what they're trying to explain in the book.
>
>However, once I'm more familiarised with the vb.net interface, I'm sure 
>I'll be navigating around in it more confidently.
>
>
>
>My question is:
>
>Are there any tutorials or hints available that will help one moving 
>objects, e.g. combo-, text- and other boxes around on the form, or maybe 
>explain how you are to acomplish this, using JFW?
>
>
>
>Also, as I'm very new to programming, I can say that I'm not at all at 
>ease with VB, but, I've wasted some 8 hours or so in fooling around with 
>it, just looking around more than anything.
>
>Would you recommend me to stick with VB, or is VC#, or even C++ a better 
>option?
>
>Incidentally, I downloaded all 3 the above mentioned express editions from 
>Microsoft, just to make sure I have something I can work with eventually.
>
>
>
>Lastly, Thomas this morning said something I feared, and that is that 
>people who battle with maths, aren't good programmers.
>
>However, I may not be the fastest learner, but I am determined to 
>acomplish this.
>
>Determination has helped me a great deal in my life already, and I'm sure 
>after much time, tears and tissues, I'll get through this one as well.
>
>(Don't always know whether it's determination, or pure stubbornness, 
>however!) lol
>
>
>
>Anyway, thanks for hearing me out.  Any help would be appreciated.
>
>
>
>All the best
>
>Quinten Pendle
>
>PENDLE PRO
>
>
>
>Klerksdorp, South Africa
>
>Tel:  +27 (0) 83 395 4593
>
>Fax:  +27 (0)86 516 0498
>
>Email and Msn:
>
><mailto:pendlepro at isat.co.za>pendlepro at isat.co.za
>
>Skype:
>
>ahakimbo
>
>Website:
>
><http://www.pendlepro.com/>www.pendlepro.com
>_______________________________________________
>AGDev-newbies mailing list
>AGDev-newbies at lists.agdev.org
>http://lists.agdev.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/agdev-newbies
>
>
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.16.10/625 - Release Date: 1/13/2007
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From quinten at pendlepro.com  Thu Jan 18 19:24:20 2007
From: quinten at pendlepro.com (The Train Lover)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 21:24:20 +0200
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] A question, and some thoughts
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20070118105117.00e158c8@pop.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <000501c73b36$43266150$0100000a@quinten>

Hi Cara and Bean
 
Thanks for your opinions and advice so far.

 
Please allow me to pose a couple more questions to you and the rest of
the list:
 
1.  Are there some sort of tutorial or help, or what ever, that will
help newbies navigating around in c sharp, c++ and vb, especially with
regard to moving objects such as text, and other boxes on a form?
and
2.  Where can I get simple examples of source code in the above
mentioned 3 languages, (even if it's a pure and simple "hello world"
application), just to see how the user interface looks like, and how to
handle and manipulate certain controls?
 
And lastly, another of my thoughts/statements/questions:
 
I am very excited about the release of the new audio game maker.
I have one concern though:
I assume that the game maker program has also been written, using some
language such as vb, c++ or c sharp.
Now, wouldn't it be better to learn one of these languages, as in the
long run, you'll have more freedom when developing your own games?
Please don't get me wrong on this one:  I'm not saying Audio Game Maker
is a bad idea, for I'm sure a lot of us will benifit from it once it's
released, me included.
But how flexible will it be when it comes to developing your own games,
and, ... ah well, I'm sure you get my drift.
 
Thanks for your time, and, apologies if my English isn't always up to
standard.  It's sometimes difficult to express myself in English, when
I'm actually thinking in Afrikaans. lol
 
All the best

Quinten Pendle
PENDLE PRO
 
Klerksdorp, South Africa
Tel:  +27 (0) 83 395 4593
Fax:  +27 (0)86 516 0498
Email and Msn:
pendlepro at isat.co.za
Skype:
ahakimbo
Website:
www.pendlepro.com <http://www.pendlepro.com/> 
-----Original Message-----
From: agdev-newbies-bounces at lists.agdev.org
[mailto:agdev-newbies-bounces at lists.agdev.org] On Behalf Of Guitar Babe
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 9:05 PM
To: Friendly informal list for those new to AG development
Subject: RE: [AGDev-newbies] A question, and some thoughts


  I'd like to agree here and say that the language is really a matter of
taste / features.  In other words, if you feel comfortable working with
it and it has the features that you like / need, then it's a good fit in
my opinion...  <smile>

  On the maths end of things, code examples are your friends!, as well
as simply taking a complex operation that you might want to have your
program do, and looking at it in small pieces.  Then the whole of the
operation may make more sense to you...

  Look at the whole of a particular task, and then look at it's parts.
I.E. getting some orange juice.  You'd first need to get up from where
you are sitting, walk to the kitchen, get a glass from the cupboard,
open the refrigerator, and so on...  

 in this way, you can make intense math operations easier.  The power of
a particular language can then help you take that basic coding and make
it more compact / elegant.  So it would then be really confusing for
someone else to look at and figure out!  lol lol lol!  

  -but you'd now understand what's happening.  <smile>  

  anyway, seriously though, don't be afraid to get too basic with a math
operation either in your head or in your code.  As you learn more, you
can always clean up your code as you go along.  

One last thing, as well as code samples being your friends, so you can
see how others do things, comments are also your friends!  If you write
good comments as you're coding a math operation for example, you can
then go back and know what you were thinking at the time, and thereby,
how to make it cleaner and more elegant.  

  I hope this helps and have a great day!...

Smiles,

Cara
 At 09:33 AM 1/18/2007 -0500, you wrote:



Hey Quinten, the language really depends on the person who is writing
the programs in my opinion anyways. I can do VB6, but absolutely do not
like the VB language. I prefer the C/C++ language to write programs in.
However I have found that some VB programmers dont understand the C/C++
language and would rather use VB instead of c/c++ language, I am totally
different. So, in my opinion, you have to find which you like better and
go with that one. Also, I am no math genius and can do programming, but
I still have to agree with Tom on this about being good at math to be
able to write good programs. I find myself when writing some complex
programs in class that I am using some pretty complex math, which most I
dont understand, but since I have the formula given to me by the
instructor, I know what it needs to do. Anyways, hope this helped you.

Bean

 

-----Original Message-----
From: agdev-newbies-bounces at lists.agdev.org
[mailto:agdev-newbies-bounces at lists.agdev.org] On Behalf Of Quinten
Pendle
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 7:51 AM
To: agdev-newbies at lists.agdev.org
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] A question, and some thoughts

 

Hi all

 

I got hold of a nifty book in pdf format, about vb.net from 

www.homeandlearn.co.uk

this morning.

This particular book assumes that you have no program knowledge
whatsoever, which happens to be the catagory in which I'm currently
falling.

 

My hugest problem at the moment is that they're constantly refering to
graphics to help illustrate what they're trying to explain in the book.

However, once I'm more familiarised with the vb.net interface, I'm sure
I'll be navigating around in it more confidently.

 

My question is:

Are there any tutorials or hints available that will help one moving
objects, e.g. combo-, text- and other boxes around on the form, or maybe
explain how you are to acomplish this, using JFW?

 

Also, as I'm very new to programming, I can say that I'm not at all at
ease with VB, but, I've wasted some 8 hours or so in fooling around with
it, just looking around more than anything.

Would you recommend me to stick with VB, or is VC#, or even C++ a better
option?

Incidentally, I downloaded all 3 the above mentioned express editions
from Microsoft, just to make sure I have something I can work with
eventually.

 

Lastly, Thomas this morning said something I feared, and that is that
people who battle with maths, aren't good programmers.

However, I may not be the fastest learner, but I am determined to
acomplish this.

Determination has helped me a great deal in my life already, and I'm
sure after much time, tears and tissues, I'll get through this one as
well.

(Don't always know whether it's determination, or pure stubbornness,
however!) lol

 

Anyway, thanks for hearing me out.  Any help would be appreciated.

 

All the best

Quinten Pendle

PENDLE PRO

 

Klerksdorp, South Africa

Tel:  +27 (0) 83 395 4593

Fax:  +27 (0)86 516 0498

Email and Msn:

pendlepro at isat.co.za

Skype:

ahakimbo

Website:

www.pendlepro.com <http://www.pendlepro.com/> 
_______________________________________________
AGDev-newbies mailing list
AGDev-newbies at lists.agdev.org
http://lists.agdev.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/agdev-newbies


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.16.10/625 - Release Date:
1/13/2007

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From jkenn337 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 19 02:01:00 2007
From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 21:01:00 -0500
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] A question, and some thoughts
References: <000501c73b36$43266150$0100000a@quinten>
Message-ID: <003a01c73b6d$ac1b1ac0$6401a8c0@kutztownstudent>

Messagedon't worry about it. Your English is fine. 

Josh

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: The Train Lover 
  To: 'Friendly informal list for those new to AG development' 
  Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 2:24 PM
  Subject: RE: [AGDev-newbies] A question, and some thoughts


  Hi Cara and Bean

  Thanks for your opinions and advice so far.

    Please allow me to pose a couple more questions to you and the rest of the list:

    1.  Are there some sort of tutorial or help, or what ever, that will help newbies navigating around in c sharp, c++ and vb, especially with regard to moving objects such as text, and other boxes on a form?
    and
    2.  Where can I get simple examples of source code in the above mentioned 3 languages, (even if it's a pure and simple "hello world" application), just to see how the user interface looks like, and how to handle and manipulate certain controls?

    And lastly, another of my thoughts/statements/questions:

    I am very excited about the release of the new audio game maker.
    I have one concern though:
    I assume that the game maker program has also been written, using some language such as vb, c++ or c sharp.
    Now, wouldn't it be better to learn one of these languages, as in the long run, you'll have more freedom when developing your own games?
    Please don't get me wrong on this one:  I'm not saying Audio Game Maker is a bad idea, for I'm sure a lot of us will benifit from it once it's released, me included.
    But how flexible will it be when it comes to developing your own games, and, ... ah well, I'm sure you get my drift.

    Thanks for your time, and, apologies if my English isn't always up to standard.  It's sometimes difficult to express myself in English, when I'm actually thinking in Afrikaans. lol

    All the best
    Quinten Pendle
    PENDLE PRO

    Klerksdorp, South Africa
    Tel:  +27 (0) 83 395 4593
    Fax:  +27 (0)86 516 0498
    Email and Msn:
    pendlepro at isat.co.za
    Skype:
    ahakimbo
    Website:
    www.pendlepro.com
    -----Original Message-----
    From: agdev-newbies-bounces at lists.agdev.org [mailto:agdev-newbies-bounces at lists.agdev.org] On Behalf Of Guitar Babe
    Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 9:05 PM
    To: Friendly informal list for those new to AG development
    Subject: RE: [AGDev-newbies] A question, and some thoughts


      I'd like to agree here and say that the language is really a matter of taste / features.  In other words, if you feel comfortable working with it and it has the features that you like / need, then it's a good fit in my opinion...  <smile>

      On the maths end of things, code examples are your friends!, as well as simply taking a complex operation that you might want to have your program do, and looking at it in small pieces.  Then the whole of the operation may make more sense to you...

      Look at the whole of a particular task, and then look at it's parts.  I.E. getting some orange juice.  You'd first need to get up from where you are sitting, walk to the kitchen, get a glass from the cupboard, open the refrigerator, and so on...  

     in this way, you can make intense math operations easier.  The power of a particular language can then help you take that basic coding and make it more compact / elegant.  So it would then be really confusing for someone else to look at and figure out!  lol lol lol!  

      -but you'd now understand what's happening.  <smile>  

      anyway, seriously though, don't be afraid to get too basic with a math operation either in your head or in your code.  As you learn more, you can always clean up your code as you go along.  

    One last thing, as well as code samples being your friends, so you can see how others do things, comments are also your friends!  If you write good comments as you're coding a math operation for example, you can then go back and know what you were thinking at the time, and thereby, how to make it cleaner and more elegant.  

      I hope this helps and have a great day!...

    Smiles,

    Cara
     At 09:33 AM 1/18/2007 -0500, you wrote:


      Hey Quinten, the language really depends on the person who is writing the programs in my opinion anyways. I can do VB6, but absolutely do not like the VB language. I prefer the C/C++ language to write programs in. However I have found that some VB programmers dont understand the C/C++ language and would rather use VB instead of c/c++ language, I am totally different. So, in my opinion, you have to find which you like better and go with that one. Also, I am no math genius and can do programming, but I still have to agree with Tom on this about being good at math to be able to write good programs. I find myself when writing some complex programs in class that I am using some pretty complex math, which most I dont understand, but since I have the formula given to me by the instructor, I know what it needs to do. Anyways, hope this helped you.

      Bean

       

      -----Original Message-----
      From: agdev-newbies-bounces at lists.agdev.org [mailto:agdev-newbies-bounces at lists.agdev.org] On Behalf Of Quinten Pendle
      Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 7:51 AM
      To: agdev-newbies at lists.agdev.org
      Subject: [AGDev-newbies] A question, and some thoughts

       

      Hi all

       

      I got hold of a nifty book in pdf format, about vb.net from 

      www.homeandlearn.co.uk

      this morning.

      This particular book assumes that you have no program knowledge whatsoever, which happens to be the catagory in which I'm currently falling.

       

      My hugest problem at the moment is that they're constantly refering to graphics to help illustrate what they're trying to explain in the book.

      However, once I'm more familiarised with the vb.net interface, I'm sure I'll be navigating around in it more confidently.

       

      My question is:

      Are there any tutorials or hints available that will help one moving objects, e.g. combo-, text- and other boxes around on the form, or maybe explain how you are to acomplish this, using JFW?

       

      Also, as I'm very new to programming, I can say that I'm not at all at ease with VB, but, I've wasted some 8 hours or so in fooling around with it, just looking around more than anything.

      Would you recommend me to stick with VB, or is VC#, or even C++ a better option?

      Incidentally, I downloaded all 3 the above mentioned express editions from Microsoft, just to make sure I have something I can work with eventually.

       

      Lastly, Thomas this morning said something I feared, and that is that people who battle with maths, aren't good programmers.

      However, I may not be the fastest learner, but I am determined to acomplish this.

      Determination has helped me a great deal in my life already, and I'm sure after much time, tears and tissues, I'll get through this one as well.

      (Don't always know whether it's determination, or pure stubbornness, however!) lol

       

      Anyway, thanks for hearing me out.  Any help would be appreciated.

       

      All the best

      Quinten Pendle

      PENDLE PRO

       

      Klerksdorp, South Africa

      Tel:  +27 (0) 83 395 4593

      Fax:  +27 (0)86 516 0498

      Email and Msn:

      pendlepro at isat.co.za

      Skype:

      ahakimbo

      Website:

      www.pendlepro.com
      _______________________________________________
      AGDev-newbies mailing list
      AGDev-newbies at lists.agdev.org
      http://lists.agdev.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/agdev-newbies


      No virus found in this incoming message.
      Checked by AVG Free Edition.
      Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.16.10/625 - Release Date: 1/13/2007


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
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  AGDev-newbies at lists.agdev.org
  http://lists.agdev.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/agdev-newbies
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From tward1978 at earthlink.net  Fri Jan 19 02:41:37 2007
From: tward1978 at earthlink.net (Thomas Ward)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 21:41:37 -0500
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] A question, and some thoughts
In-Reply-To: <006801c73b0d$9b29f3e0$6c0261d0@gadolum18z9hrn>
References: <006801c73b0d$9b29f3e0$6c0261d0@gadolum18z9hrn>
Message-ID: <45B02FE1.1020704@earthlink.net>

Hi Quinten and all,
First, before doing anything with Visual Basic, Visual C#, Visual C++ 
etc you need to familiarise yourself with the hot keys in order to be 
effective in using the development environments. Most if not all of the 
features mentioned in the books are accessible via the keyboard.
An example a VB book or C# book might say click here and do this to 
bring up the properties for a control. You can do that by tabbing to the 
control on the design form, and press f4. To view the controls code use 
f7, and shift+f7 will return to the design view.
If you want to change a controls placement on the form, tab to the 
control, press f4, and navigate the tree view until you find the x and y 
coordinates of the control. Editing these fields will move the control 
to the location on the form where you want it. You can also modify its 
size, style, and other properties. Designing forms manually will require 
a bit of math as you don't have the visual aability to see a finished 
product of your form layout, and have to depend on hard math to 
calculate what it will look like and how big or small things should be 
according to skale.
In other cases a Visual C# books or a Visual Basic book might tell you 
to click on a specific area of the screen to access the toolbox. For use 
pressing control+w followed by x will drop Jaws or Window Eyes right on 
the toolbox, and navigating the tree view of tools from there is  
accessible, but can be a bit confusing at first. To place a tool on the 
form press enter on the tool and it is dropped in the center of the form.
Another book might say click on the on such and such frame to see your 
full project explorer to view all your project files. That is as easy as 
doing control+w followed by s. . Then Jaws or Window Eyes can navigate 
the tree view of files, forms, resources, documentation, etc...
I've got notes around here of most VS hotkeys, but I'll have to dig it 
up, and post it here. I think this is what is troubling most of you. If 
you can't understand how to get around the IDE yyou won't be able to 
program, compile, and do everything else until you know your whay around.



From tward1978 at earthlink.net  Fri Jan 19 03:40:41 2007
From: tward1978 at earthlink.net (Thomas Ward)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 22:40:41 -0500
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] A question, and some thoughts
In-Reply-To: <006801c73b0d$9b29f3e0$6c0261d0@gadolum18z9hrn>
References: <006801c73b0d$9b29f3e0$6c0261d0@gadolum18z9hrn>
Message-ID: <45B03DB9.7070209@earthlink.net>

Hi Quinten,
My personal preference is Visual C#, because it is allot like C++ 
without all the complexity involved in C++. However, what you learn and 
choose to program in becomes a personal preference at some point. So 
I'll list some of the advantages and disadvantages of Each language here 
so as to let you choose based on the information on each of the 
languages you mentioned.
Probably the most widely used language is C++. The reason is that C++ is 
an extremely powerful language that powers everything from cell phones, 
used to design software for cell phones, operating systems like Windows 
and Linux, software drivers, state of the art games, and many things. 
Just about every home aplience with some computer interface is written 
in C++. Most research projects and docs on things like artificial 
intelligence is drafted in C++ first, and then ported to other languages 
later.
The down side of C++ is that it isn't the easiest language to learn, and 
is more of an intermediate to advance programmer language for good 
reason. For example the Microsoft win32 API for writing Windows 
applications is around 1000 pages, and is necessary for productive 
programming in Windows. For games just basic Win32 programming is 
alright, but for general applications you may find yourself referring to 
lots of docs on win32.
The new Visual C# language, called C-Sharp, looks like C++ code, but 
Microsoft designed it to be a light weight beginner language for new 
programmers. Unlike C++ all of the Win32 stuff is in the .NET Framework, 
and by simply referencing the framework you have the power of C++ 
without having to know any Win32 programming. Just the basic C# language 
keywords, general programming skills, and of course some knowledge of 
the .NET Framework Last but not least if you learn C# you will have the 
skills in place to move into other languages like Java, C++, and other C 
clones..
Disadvantages of Visual C# is that it totally depends on the .NET 
Framework to be installed, and I have found that is a real pain in the 
backside, as not everyone has it installed, or they don't have a 
compatible version installed. Until the .NET Framework becomes a core 
part of Windows .NET Framework apps will have this issue Fortunately, 
Windows Vista does come with the latest .NET Framework as a core part of 
the os so as people move to Vista these issues will be less of a bother..
Another issue is that .NET Framework programs need or require a 
third-party tool to encrypt the exe files before you can distribute 
them. There are free tools out there to do this, but well the more 
expensive ones do a better job.
As for Visual Basic it isn't my cup of tea, but perhaps it might be 
yours. Unlike C++, C#, and Java VB doesn't require allot of syntactical 
code like braces, semicolons,that you have with other C style languages. 
Instead or in place of that VB code uses actual human readable words to 
do the same thing. Instead of a right brace to close an if statement VB 
will use End If. That is why VB has become the amiture programmers 
choice. For people who have a trouble grasping using symbols or 
punctuation for things enjoy the ease of just writing that instruction 
out like End Sub, End If, If health Is 100 Then, and so on. Pretty easy.
The trouble with the VB languages is they don't have many coding 
conventions in common with other languages like C++. It has objects, 
classes, etc but since everything is done without a strong sense of 
punctuation VB programmers aren't always able to make the leap from 
basic coding to advanced languages, because they never learned the C++ 
style coding used in most languages.
Many get confused and forget where the punctuation marks go just like a 
first year student all over again. An example is necessary here. Just 
writing a variable looks and is a bit different.

' A VB variable.
Dim health As Integer

// A C++ variable.
int health;

As you can see in this very simple illistration in C++ the variable 
creation was extremely straight forward. Integer is shortened to int and 
it was ended with a semicolon. In VB while I did the same thing in order 
to make it more readable the language takes the round about way of 
spelling it out fully as to be self explanatory. Rather than something 
simple like int health VB uses Dim health As Integer which is one of the 
reasons I personally dis like the language. Takes to long to write it 
out when other languages are short and to the point. For me I'd rather 
just drop a brace, one key, then to spell out End If, End Loop, etc. 
However, I am a skilled programmer so perhaps I am just being to harsh 
towards VB for it's simplicity.
Finally, VB has all the .NET issues I mentioned earlier. The .NET 
languages are cool, nice, very easy to use, but distributing them 
sometimes can get rough when the end user doesn't know much about 
computers, and you have to play tech support, and find out why their 
install of the framework is broken.
Hope this clears some things up.




From tward1978 at earthlink.net  Fri Jan 19 03:48:20 2007
From: tward1978 at earthlink.net (Thomas Ward)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 22:48:20 -0500
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] A question, and some thoughts
In-Reply-To: <006801c73b0d$9b29f3e0$6c0261d0@gadolum18z9hrn>
References: <006801c73b0d$9b29f3e0$6c0261d0@gadolum18z9hrn>
Message-ID: <45B03F84.5020205@earthlink.net>

Hi Richard,
I find myself in agreement with you. I've never been a big fan of VB. I 
understand why many coding conventions were skipped in order to offer 
simplicity, but when you have been a C++ style programmer as long as I 
have going back to VB ways of doing things is like a step done, and you 
find yourself lacking.
When I was in college they started us out on VB 5. Well, back then it 
was ok. I learned the basics of programming, and thought I was Mr. Hot 
Shot. However, once I under stood C++ I found I could apply what I 
learned from C++ to Java, C#, perl, and the education was so much more 
productive in unlocking and understanding other languages. With VB all I 
knew was VB, and that was it. What I learned only applied to other 
languages in the basic level. In fact, back then with VB 5 and VB 6 they 
didn't even discuss object oriented programming concepts and did 
structured programming mostly.
Man once I began C++ and Java and got a gggrasp of object oriented 
programming design I won't go back to swtructured programming unless I 
go kicking and screaming.
Fortunately, Microsoft got smart, no doubt to oop guys like me, to make 
VB oop so that at least if I have to do it on a job sight or something I 
can do oop. None of this structured programming junk.






From tward1978 at earthlink.net  Fri Jan 19 04:17:47 2007
From: tward1978 at earthlink.net (Thomas Ward)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 23:17:47 -0500
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] A question, and some thoughts
In-Reply-To: <003a01c73b6d$ac1b1ac0$6401a8c0@kutztownstudent>
References: <000501c73b36$43266150$0100000a@quinten>
	<003a01c73b6d$ac1b1ac0$6401a8c0@kutztownstudent>
Message-ID: <45B0466B.4020207@earthlink.net>

Hello,

Quote
I assume that the      game maker program has also been written, using 
some language
such as vb,      c++ or c sharp.
Now,      wouldn't it be better to learn one of these languages, as in 
the      long
run, you'll have more freedom when developing your own      games?
End quote

Absolutely. Knowing and being skilled in a programming language will 
help you and serve you well in fully designing every aspect of the game 
you want. With engines and tools you will be restricted in some way to 
what the developer has designed into that engine/tool.
An example here is currently Audio Games Maker doesn't support saving 
games during play to resume play later. If your game is an RPG or some 
kind of quest that can take days or even weeks to complete a save 
feature is manditory. That will effect your over all design with Audio 
Games Maker. If you had knolege in a programming language you could 
simply serialise all your objects into a binary stream, and write it out 
to a file. Then, later lload those streams back in to the objects for 
all of your characters and items.





From tward1978 at earthlink.net  Fri Jan 19 04:12:03 2007
From: tward1978 at earthlink.net (Thomas Ward)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 23:12:03 -0500
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] A question, and some thoughts
In-Reply-To: <003a01c73b6d$ac1b1ac0$6401a8c0@kutztownstudent>
References: <000501c73b36$43266150$0100000a@quinten>
	<003a01c73b6d$ac1b1ac0$6401a8c0@kutztownstudent>
Message-ID: <45B04513.2090209@earthlink.net>

Hi,

Quote
2.  Where can I      get simple examples of source code in the above 
mentioned 3
languages, (even if it's a pure and simple "hello world" 
application),      just
to see how the user interface looks like, and how to handle and      
manipulate certain
controls?
End quote

If you have downloaded the full version of the .NET Framework 2.0, not 
the express SDK but the full SDK, the .NET Framework help system has 
tutorieals from the most basic to more and more complex stuff It will 
have samples in C++, C#, VB, and J#.





From tward1978 at earthlink.net  Fri Jan 19 04:45:55 2007
From: tward1978 at earthlink.net (Thomas Ward)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 23:45:55 -0500
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] A question, and some thoughts
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20070118105117.00e158c8@pop.earthlink.net>
References: <000401c73a36$2b73c1c0$0100000a@quinten>
	<5.2.1.1.0.20070118105117.00e158c8@pop.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <45B04D03.7070000@earthlink.net>

Hi Cara and all,
I'd like to add the fact one reason why this game list exists is to help 
others without certain skills gain the skills they need to write 
effective and playable games. Even if your math skills are poor others 
on this list may have those skills to contribute so don't cut yourself 
short, and say I don't have such and such a skill so I can't do it. 
Asking here is a start.
Here is a simple example.
Let's say person x wants to know how to calculate the percentage of 
health the player currently has compared to the maximum available 
hitpoints.
Person y might then write in and say,
"to get the current percentage remember this formula percentage equals 
current hit points devided by the maximum hit points times 100.
 Then, person x then can write up a function like this.

int Percentage(int c, int m)
{
 int p = (c / m) * 100;
return p;
}

What should be pretty obvious about this simple function if you have 
taken algebra any first year algebra student can figure out how this 
formula works P stands for percentage, c is for current, and m stands 
for maximum possible points.
So in short this list can help overcome many issues you may have in 
programming general applications and games.









From pendlepro at isat.co.za  Fri Jan 19 16:16:55 2007
From: pendlepro at isat.co.za (Quinten Pendle)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 18:16:55 +0200
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] a few more questions
Message-ID: <000001c73be5$3e60cf70$0100000a@quinten>

Hi again list
 
Thanks for all the help/tips/tricks, etc. up to now.
 
Is it safe to assume that, when you start learning C#, and you progress
well enough, you can always take up c++ later on, as there's a couple of
simularities between the 2 languages, although there are major
differences as well?
And lastly (for now anyway), someone mentioned to me the other day that,
if your maths isn't up to standard, you're better off going with VB.net.
Is this crap, or not?
 
Thanks and enjoy the day.
 
Best regards
Quinten Pendle
PENDLE PRO
 
Klerksdorp, South Africa
Tel:  +27 (0) 83 395 4593
Fax:  +27 (0)86 516 0498
Email and Msn:
pendlepro at isat.co.za
Skype:
ahakimbo
Website:
www.pendlepro.com <http://www.pendlepro.com/> 
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From GuitarBabe at earthlink.net  Sun Jan 21 09:41:12 2007
From: GuitarBabe at earthlink.net (Guitar Babe)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 01:41:12 -0800
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] mfc
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20070121013051.00dddb98@mail.onemodelplace.com>

			  Hi All, am wondering about adding header files for mfc to a Visual C++ 
project.  I'm going through the project wizard in visual C++ 2005 and it 
won't let me check the box to add mfc header files to my project.  I'm 
creating a windows console app as I'm going through a tutorial on creating 
a client server ap in C++ using  winsock and am trying to replicate the 
conditions for starting it.  The wizard however,won't let me, <smile.  as 
it says the mfc checkbox is unavailable, so I basically just cannot check 
it no matter what I do.

   So obviously, I'm missing something, and since I've not worked directly 
with server creation and winsock before, I don't know what that might 
be!  <smile>

   So basically, HELP		!!!  lol!

Smiles,

Cara

  


-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.17.3/642 - Release Date: 1/20/2007




From mail at sabahattin-gucukoglu.com  Sun Jan 21 15:16:22 2007
From: mail at sabahattin-gucukoglu.com (Sabahattin Gucukoglu)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 15:16:22 -0000
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] a few more questions
In-Reply-To: <000001c73be5$3e60cf70$0100000a@quinten>
References: <000001c73be5$3e60cf70$0100000a@quinten>
Message-ID: <45B383C6.13078.5D6B035@mail.sabahattin-gucukoglu.com>

Hi Quinten,

On 19 Jan 2007 at 18:16, Quinten Pendle said:

> Is it safe to assume that, when you start learning C#, and you progress
> well enough, you can always take up c++ later on, as there's a couple of
> simularities between the 2 languages, although there are major differences
> as well?

Yes, except that in my opinion you should do this in chronological order 
(that is, C/C++ first).  C# can only honestly be described as similar to 
C/C++ in syntax.  The superset of C that is not C++ and is therefore not a 
disgusting hack is Objective-C, but most people will never have cause to 
learn it in the Real World(TM) (a damned shame, to be sure, because it's 
really a cute language).

My advice, then, is to learn C first, understand it and its syntax and its 
deeper aspects clearly, and then to progress to C#.  I appreciate that 
this is tough but learning C is a sure way to fully appreciate other 
languages with a sense of certainty and having been there and seen it all 
before.  As a way of rapid development, this method leaves much to be 
desired.

If you don't already know C-like languages, consider learning other 
languages that would introduce you to object-orientation much more 
intuitively.  It seems to be increasingly commonplace for new programmers 
today to learn something very far afield and then get around to the low-
level stuff later.  A scripting language, perhaps?

> And lastly (for now anyway), someone mentioned to me the other day
> that, if your maths isn't up to standard, you're better off going with
> VB.net. Is this crap, or not?

Crap.  .NET languages should have no differences in features.  It's all in 
the syntax.  Therefore, it follows that whatever you know will help you on 
your programming adventures and whatever you don't is buried in a theory 
textbook somewhere ...

Cheers,
Sabahattin

-- 
Sabahattin Gucukoglu <mail<at>sabahattin<dash>gucukoglu<dot>com>
Address harvesters, snag this: feedme at yamta.org
Phone: +44 20 88008915
Mobile: +44 7986 053399



From tward1978 at earthlink.net  Mon Jan 22 01:49:38 2007
From: tward1978 at earthlink.net (Thomas Ward)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 20:49:38 -0500
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] mfc
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20070121013051.00dddb98@mail.onemodelplace.com>
References: <5.2.1.1.0.20070121013051.00dddb98@mail.onemodelplace.com>
Message-ID: <45B41832.3010600@earthlink.net>

Hi Cara,
As you  found out the Visual C++ IDE won't allow you to include MFC 
support for console applications. That is because they generally don't 
require the Microsoft Foundation Classes. 
If you want them included you will have to add the libs manually to your 
sln file, or select a Windows GUI application projecttype.
Adding them manually is no biggy. I do it with libs like DirectX always. 
Just open the the C++ project file, my_program.vcproj, file in notepad, 
and then tell it what libs you want on the additional dependancies line. 
The line might look like this for a common MFC application.
AdditionalDependencies="MFCAPWZ.LIB  MFCCLWZ.LIB MFCUIA32.LIB"
Now, save the vcproj file, and MFC will happily be added to your 
aplication the next time you start Visual C++ and open your project.
Cheers.

Guitar Babe wrote:
>               Hi All, am wondering about adding header files for mfc 
> to a Visual C++ project.  I'm going through the project wizard in 
> visual C++ 2005 and it won't let me check the box to add mfc header 
> files to my project.  I'm creating a windows console app as I'm going 
> through a tutorial on creating a client server ap in C++ using  
> winsock and am trying to replicate the conditions for starting it.  
> The wizard however,won't let me, <smile.  as it says the mfc checkbox 
> is unavailable, so I basically just cannot check it no matter what I do.
>
>   So obviously, I'm missing something, and since I've not worked 
> directly with server creation and winsock before, I don't know what 
> that might be!  <smile>
>
>   So basically, HELP        !!!  lol!
>
> Smiles,
>
> Cara
>
>  
>
>



From tward1978 at earthlink.net  Mon Jan 22 02:11:31 2007
From: tward1978 at earthlink.net (Thomas Ward)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 21:11:31 -0500
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] mfc
In-Reply-To: <45B41832.3010600@earthlink.net>
References: <5.2.1.1.0.20070121013051.00dddb98@mail.onemodelplace.com>
	<45B41832.3010600@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <45B41D53.3080909@earthlink.net>

Hi,

PS


I just tried it with Visual C++ 2005 express, and it failed. Apparently 
MFC support, at least the libs, are stripped out of the Express version.
 My guess is Microsoft is so determined to get people over to .NET and 
off of MFC they have  began  pulling them from the compiler as an option.
That kind of scraps one of my ideas of a C++ engine with MFC. I could 
still do a generic Win32 API approach, but certainly MS is making it 
clear they want .NET stuff now.



From GuitarBabe at earthlink.net  Mon Jan 22 02:55:27 2007
From: GuitarBabe at earthlink.net (Guitar Babe)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 18:55:27 -0800
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] mfc
In-Reply-To: <45B41832.3010600@earthlink.net>
References: <5.2.1.1.0.20070121013051.00dddb98@mail.onemodelplace.com>
	<5.2.1.1.0.20070121013051.00dddb98@mail.onemodelplace.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20070121185208.00ddcd60@pop.earthlink.net>

   Thanks much Tom!  That's weird, I wonder why it shows the checkbox if 
it's not available?  Usually Microsoft is better about that sort of thing...
I'd thought of adding them manually too, but wasn't sure about names and 
such...  Thanks!...
Smiles,

Cara

At 08:49 PM 1/21/2007 -0500, you wrote:

>         Hi Cara,
>As you  found out the Visual C++ IDE won't allow you to include MFC 
>support for console applications. That is because they generally don't 
>require the Microsoft Foundation Classes. If you want them included you 
>will have to add the libs manually to your sln file, or select a Windows 
>GUI application projecttype.
>Adding them manually is no biggy. I do it with libs like DirectX always. 
>Just open the the C++ project file, my_program.vcproj, file in notepad, 
>and then tell it what libs you want on the additional dependancies line. 
>The line might look like this for a common MFC application.
>AdditionalDependencies="MFCAPWZ.LIB  MFCCLWZ.LIB MFCUIA32.LIB"
>Now, save the vcproj file, and MFC will happily be added to your 
>aplication the next time you start Visual C++ and open your project.
>Cheers.
>
>Guitar Babe wrote:
>>               Hi All, am wondering about adding header files for mfc to 
>> a Visual C++ project.  I'm going through the project wizard in visual 
>> C++ 2005 and it won't let me check the box to add mfc header files to my 
>> project.  I'm creating a windows console app as I'm going through a 
>> tutorial on creating a client server ap in C++ using
>>winsock and am trying to replicate the conditions for starting it.
>>The wizard however,won't let me, <smile.  as it says the mfc checkbox is 
>>unavailable, so I basically just cannot check it no matter what I do.
>>
>>   So obviously, I'm missing something, and since I've not worked 
>> directly with server creation and winsock before, I don't know what that 
>> might be!  <smile>
>>
>>   So basically, HELP        !!!  lol!
>>
>>Smiles,
>>
>>Cara
>>
>>
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>AGDev-newbies mailing list
>AGDev-newbies at lists.agdev.org
>http://lists.agdev.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/agdev-newbies
>
>
>
>--
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.17.4/643 - Release Date: 1/21/2007


-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.17.4/643 - Release Date: 1/21/2007




From GuitarBabe at earthlink.net  Mon Jan 22 02:58:59 2007
From: GuitarBabe at earthlink.net (Guitar Babe)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 18:58:59 -0800
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] mfc
In-Reply-To: <45B41D53.3080909@earthlink.net>
References: <45B41832.3010600@earthlink.net>
	<5.2.1.1.0.20070121013051.00dddb98@mail.onemodelplace.com>
	<45B41832.3010600@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20070121185645.00e12300@pop.earthlink.net>

   Eek!  this is a pain!  Thanks for the info...

Smiles,

Cara

At 09:11 PM 1/21/2007 -0500, you wrote:

>Hi,
>
>PS
>
>
>I just tried it with Visual C++ 2005 express, and it failed. Apparently 
>MFC support, at least the libs, are stripped out of the Express version.
>My guess is Microsoft is so determined to get people over to .NET and off 
>of MFC they have  began  pulling them from the compiler as an option.
>That kind of scraps one of my ideas of a C++ engine with MFC. I could 
>still do a generic Win32 API approach, but certainly MS is making it clear 
>they want .NET stuff now.
>
>_______________________________________________
>AGDev-newbies mailing list
>AGDev-newbies at lists.agdev.org
>http://lists.agdev.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/agdev-newbies
>
>
>
>--
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.17.4/643 - Release Date: 1/21/2007


-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.17.4/643 - Release Date: 1/21/2007




From tward1978 at earthlink.net  Mon Jan 22 08:48:48 2007
From: tward1978 at earthlink.net (Thomas Ward)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 03:48:48 -0500
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] mfc
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20070121185645.00e12300@pop.earthlink.net>
References: <45B41832.3010600@earthlink.net>	<5.2.1.1.0.20070121013051.00dddb98@mail.onemodelplace.com>	<45B41832.3010600@earthlink.net>
	<5.2.1.1.0.20070121185645.00e12300@pop.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <45B47A70.2030507@earthlink.net>

Hi Cara,
Well, if they are absolutely necessary I can look around for my Visual 
C++ 6.0 stuff and zip up the libs and include directories which has MFC, 
winsock, etc for 98 era machines. Although, I don't know if that would 
nuke the VC++ 2005 install or not.
I'm rather hesitant of trying it on my VC++ 2005 install.


Guitar Babe wrote:
>   Eek!  this is a pain!  Thanks for the info...
>
> Smiles,
>
> Cara



From tward1978 at earthlink.net  Mon Jan 22 08:52:00 2007
From: tward1978 at earthlink.net (Thomas Ward)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 03:52:00 -0500
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] mfc
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20070121185208.00ddcd60@pop.earthlink.net>
References: <5.2.1.1.0.20070121013051.00dddb98@mail.onemodelplace.com>	<5.2.1.1.0.20070121013051.00dddb98@mail.onemodelplace.com>
	<5.2.1.1.0.20070121185208.00ddcd60@pop.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <45B47B30.7070800@earthlink.net>

Hi,
In light of what I discovered I am rather surprised as well that 
checkbox is there as well.
If MS is really pushing forward with .NET why not just remove that 
dialog rather than graying it out.


Guitar Babe wrote:
>   Thanks much Tom!  That's weird, I wonder why it shows the checkbox 
> if it's not available?  Usually Microsoft is better about that sort of 
> thing...
> I'd thought of adding them manually too, but wasn't sure about names 
> and such...  Thanks!...
> Smiles,
>
> Cara



From GuitarBabe at earthlink.net  Tue Jan 23 01:03:57 2007
From: GuitarBabe at earthlink.net (Guitar Babe)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 17:03:57 -0800
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] mfc
In-Reply-To: <45B47A70.2030507@earthlink.net>
References: <5.2.1.1.0.20070121185645.00e12300@pop.earthlink.net>
	<45B41832.3010600@earthlink.net>
	<5.2.1.1.0.20070121013051.00dddb98@mail.onemodelplace.com>
	<45B41832.3010600@earthlink.net>
	<5.2.1.1.0.20070121185645.00e12300@pop.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20070122170049.00e12bc0@pop.earthlink.net>

   Well, what's happening is that a tutorial I want to go through needs 
that support.  It is on how to create a client server ap with winsock and 
it's in C++.  At this point, it seems more effective for me to just go 
ahead and use Direct Play with C#, even though it's been deprecated, rather 
than mucking about with all of this.  Any thoughts?...

Smiles,

Cara

At 03:48 AM 1/22/2007 -0500, you wrote:

>Hi Cara,
>Well, if they are absolutely necessary I can look around for my Visual C++ 
>6.0 stuff and zip up the libs and include directories which has MFC, 
>winsock, etc for 98 era machines. Although, I don't know if that would 
>nuke the VC++ 2005 install or not.
>I'm rather hesitant of trying it on my VC++ 2005 install.
>
>
>Guitar Babe wrote:
>>   Eek!  this is a pain!  Thanks for the info...
>>
>>Smiles,
>>
>>Cara
>
>_______________________________________________
>AGDev-newbies mailing list
>AGDev-newbies at lists.agdev.org
>http://lists.agdev.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/agdev-newbies
>
>
>
>--
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.17.4/643 - Release Date: 1/21/2007


-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.17.4/643 - Release Date: 1/21/2007




From richard at audiogames.net  Wed Jan 31 18:34:33 2007
From: richard at audiogames.net (AudioGames.net)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 19:34:33 +0100
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] Audio Game Maker Delayed Until Further Notice
Message-ID: <003601c74566$73a40be0$6402a8c0@Delletje>

I'm really really sorry to have to post this, guys:

***
Audio Game Maker Delayed Until Further Notice

In the night of the 25th of January a huge fire destroyed all of the offices of the Accessibility Foundation. Fortunately Accessibility was able to move into a new office in the city of Utrecht on Monday the 29th, where we are gradually building up our service and reachability to the usual level. Our new contact information is available on our websites.

A beta-version of Audio Game Maker was supposed to be released on Thursday the 1st of February 2007. Unfortunately this release date will be postponed. Although the Accessibility Foundation is operational to a certain degree, we are still in the process of gathering the necessary equipment and software that is needed to continue the work on the Audio Game Maker.

We will continue development on Audio Game Maker as soon as possible but have decided to delay the release until further notice. Future
information about the release will be posted on http://www.audiogamemaker.com and http://www.game-accessibility.com.
 
On behalf of the team of Accessibility.nl,
 
Richard van Tol
 
More information and pictures (in dutch):  http://www.accessibility.nl/algemeen/nieuws?id=136
***

:(

Richard

http://www.audiogames.net 
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