From matthew at agrip.org.uk  Wed Jul  5 23:55:41 2006
From: matthew at agrip.org.uk (Matthew T. Atkinson)
Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 23:55:41 +0100
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] Spam problems -- Sorted?
Message-ID: <1152140141.3109.18.camel@localhost>

Right, I think I've fixed the spam issues...

A nice person (``Markku Tavasti'') on the moinmoin mailing list
suggested that we have a group of members who we trust to edit pages,
and base editing rights on those.  I have therefore added all AGRIP Wiki
members to such a group and you should all now be free to edit the Wiki
again.

Some of your names have spaces in them (naughty!); I will try to see
what we can do about that as I don't think the technique will work.
Please let me know if you can actually edit pages!

If you are not on the list for any reason and wish to be added, then you
can mail me and I'll of course get you on there ASAP.  The only reason
why you'd not be on there is if you didn't have a home page -- if you
are a member you really should have one of those so please set one up
(or ask me how, if in doubt) ASAP.

best regards,


-- 
Matthew T. Atkinson <matthew at agrip.org.uk>



From matthew at agrip.org.uk  Sun Jul 16 15:51:56 2006
From: matthew at agrip.org.uk (Matthew T. Atkinson)
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 15:51:56 +0100
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] Is this still working?
Message-ID: <1153061518.3689.0.camel@localhost>

I have been away for a week at a conference and have not seen any new
posts here -- if people are having problems, please contact me off-list.

best regards,


-- 
Matthew T. Atkinson <matthew at agrip.org.uk>



From tward1978 at earthlink.net  Sun Jul 16 18:48:45 2006
From: tward1978 at earthlink.net (Thomas Ward)
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 13:48:45 -0400
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] Is this still working?
In-Reply-To: <1153061518.3689.0.camel@localhost>
References: <1153061518.3689.0.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <44BA7BFD.3050107@earthlink.net>

Hi, Matthew.
Everything seams to be working fine. Just everyone seams to be busy 
lately, or don't have any new questions at the time being.



Matthew T. Atkinson wrote:
> I have been away for a week at a conference and have not seen any new
> posts here -- if people are having problems, please contact me off-list.
>
> best regards,
>
>
>   



From jeremyhartley at comcast.net  Sun Jul 16 19:41:46 2006
From: jeremyhartley at comcast.net (Jeremy Hartley)
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 11:41:46 -0700
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] Is this still working?
References: <1153061518.3689.0.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <000401c6a907$7e157b00$347a0518@youro0kwkw9jwc>

Hello.

I just joined this list last week, and have been keeping quite busy reading 
the list archives. grin

I hope people haven't given up on this list because I have already learned a 
lot by just looking at the previous posts.

Jeremy

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Matthew T. Atkinson" <matthew at agrip.org.uk>
To: "AGDev-newbies list" <agdev-newbies at lists.agdev.org>
Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2006 7:51 AM
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] Is this still working?


>I have been away for a week at a conference and have not seen any new
> posts here -- if people are having problems, please contact me off-list.
>
> best regards,
>
>
> -- 
> Matthew T. Atkinson <matthew at agrip.org.uk>
>
> _______________________________________________
> AGDev-newbies mailing list
> AGDev-newbies at lists.agdev.org
> http://lists.agdev.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/agdev-newbies
>
> __________ NOD32 1.1663 (20060716) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.eset.com
>
> 



From mvfegund at juno.com  Sun Jul 16 20:17:50 2006
From: mvfegund at juno.com (Ivan Fegundez)
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 13:17:50 -0600
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] Is this still working?
References: <1153061518.3689.0.camel@localhost>
	<000401c6a907$7e157b00$347a0518@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <008401c6a90c$8840d610$b40b9641@pieceofjunk>

Well, wellcome to the list.

Thanks
Ivan owner-moderator for e-ray games mailing list.
IF YOU HAVE not  joined my e-ray group,  join viea email. Just    send a
email  at:
eraygametalk-subscribe at googlegroups.com
Pleas note, that you're membership will have to be aproved by me befor you
will be able to post or read any messages. This will take no longer than 72
oures.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeremy Hartley" <jeremyhartley at comcast.net>
To: "Friendly informal list for those new to AG development"
<agdev-newbies at lists.agdev.org>
Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2006 12:41 PM
Subject: Re: [AGDev-newbies] Is this still working?


> Hello.
>
> I just joined this list last week, and have been keeping quite busy
reading
> the list archives. grin
>
> I hope people haven't given up on this list because I have already learned
a
> lot by just looking at the previous posts.
>
> Jeremy
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Matthew T. Atkinson" <matthew at agrip.org.uk>
> To: "AGDev-newbies list" <agdev-newbies at lists.agdev.org>
> Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2006 7:51 AM
> Subject: [AGDev-newbies] Is this still working?
>
>
> >I have been away for a week at a conference and have not seen any new
> > posts here -- if people are having problems, please contact me off-list.
> >
> > best regards,
> >
> >
> > --
> > Matthew T. Atkinson <matthew at agrip.org.uk>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > AGDev-newbies mailing list
> > AGDev-newbies at lists.agdev.org
> > http://lists.agdev.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/agdev-newbies
> >
> > __________ NOD32 1.1663 (20060716) Information __________
> >
> > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> > http://www.eset.com
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> AGDev-newbies mailing list
> AGDev-newbies at lists.agdev.org
> http://lists.agdev.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/agdev-newbies
>



From rbennett at southlink.us  Sun Jul 16 20:33:41 2006
From: rbennett at southlink.us (Richard Bennett)
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 15:33:41 -0400
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] Is this still working?
References: <1153061518.3689.0.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <007501c6a90e$bf126d50$c9ad1c42@gadolum18z9hrn>

Hey Matthew, I am assumming that it is still working since I have received 
your e-mail asking whether or not it was working. I have just been unable to 
work on any programming the past couple of weeks due to my school starting 
back and me being overloaded. So as soon as it calms down, hopefully I will 
be able to get back to programming and then I am sure I will have some 
questions.  Anyways, talk at ya'll later on.
BEAN 



From richard at audiogames.net  Sun Jul 16 23:21:55 2006
From: richard at audiogames.net (AudioGames.net)
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 00:21:55 +0200
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] Is this still working?
References: <1153061518.3689.0.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <004301c6a926$3f246900$8e8b2ed5@Delletje>

Hi,

How was the ICCHP? Reading your "Making the mainstream..." presentation now. 
What did you think of the proposed guidelines for game accessibility?

Develop Brighton was very interesting, only a couple of people with our 
tutorial (due to organisational issues - not our fault) although the most 
important ones (including veteran game designer and ludologist Ernest Adams) 
attended. I've recorded our session and will try and put them online as soon 
as possible (although with captioning that WILL take a long time :(.

Are you off to Boston in three weeks as well?

Greets,

Richard


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Matthew T. Atkinson" <matthew at agrip.org.uk>
To: "AGDev-newbies list" <agdev-newbies at lists.agdev.org>
Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2006 4:51 PM
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] Is this still working?


>I have been away for a week at a conference and have not seen any new
> posts here -- if people are having problems, please contact me off-list.
>
> best regards,
>
>
> -- 
> Matthew T. Atkinson <matthew at agrip.org.uk>
>
> _______________________________________________
> AGDev-newbies mailing list
> AGDev-newbies at lists.agdev.org
> http://lists.agdev.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/agdev-newbies 



From tward1978 at earthlink.net  Sun Jul 16 23:28:40 2006
From: tward1978 at earthlink.net (Thomas Ward)
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 18:28:40 -0400
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] Is this still working?
In-Reply-To: <000401c6a907$7e157b00$347a0518@youro0kwkw9jwc>
References: <1153061518.3689.0.camel@localhost>
	<000401c6a907$7e157b00$347a0518@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <44BABD98.3070006@earthlink.net>

Hi.
I am glad the archives have been informative and helpful. I don't think 
anyone has given up, but just been busy with other projects of late.



Jeremy Hartley wrote:
> Hello.
>
> I just joined this list last week, and have been keeping quite busy 
> reading the list archives. grin
>
> I hope people haven't given up on this list because I have already 
> learned a lot by just looking at the previous posts.
>
> Jeremy



From matthew at agrip.org.uk  Tue Jul 18 12:33:13 2006
From: matthew at agrip.org.uk (Matthew T. Atkinson)
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 12:33:13 +0100
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] Is this still working?
In-Reply-To: <000401c6a907$7e157b00$347a0518@youro0kwkw9jwc>
References: <1153061518.3689.0.camel@localhost>
	<000401c6a907$7e157b00$347a0518@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <1153222393.2839.122.camel@localhost>

I second Thomas' opinion that it's good this is still helping people.
I'm no stranger to being busy but I'm glad it's working and look forward
to future activity when people have the time :-).

best regards,


-- 
Matthew T. Atkinson <matthew at agrip.org.uk>



From matthew at agrip.org.uk  Tue Jul 18 12:37:34 2006
From: matthew at agrip.org.uk (Matthew T. Atkinson)
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 12:37:34 +0100
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] Is this still working?
In-Reply-To: <004301c6a926$3f246900$8e8b2ed5@Delletje>
References: <1153061518.3689.0.camel@localhost>
	<004301c6a926$3f246900$8e8b2ed5@Delletje>
Message-ID: <1153222655.2839.126.camel@localhost>

On Mon, 2006-07-17 at 00:21 +0200, AudioGames.net wrote:
> How was the ICCHP? Reading your "Making the mainstream..." presentation now. 
> What did you think of the proposed guidelines for game accessibility?
end-quote

Very good, thanks.  I learnt some new German, met some very interesting
and motivated people and enjoyed listening to the ideas presented there.

I would like to see the guidelines being adopted.  The people in
question are doing a lot of work on making them more possible to adopt
and it would be great to see that begin to happen.  In the future, I
expect it will; is just a matter of when.

quote
> Develop Brighton was very interesting, only a couple of people with our 
> tutorial (due to organisational issues - not our fault) although the most 
> important ones (including veteran game designer and ludologist Ernest Adams) 
> attended. I've recorded our session and will try and put them online as soon 
> as possible (although with captioning that WILL take a long time :(.
end-quote

It is a shame to hear about the organisational issues but it sounds like
you recovered from that given the participants :-).  I look forward to
hearing more about it.

quote
> Are you off to Boston in three weeks as well?
end-quote

That's the plan -- are you going there too?

best regards,


-- 
Matthew T. Atkinson <matthew at agrip.org.uk>



From richard at audiogames.net  Tue Jul 18 18:24:31 2006
From: richard at audiogames.net (AudioGames.net)
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 19:24:31 +0200
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] Is this still working?
References: <1153061518.3689.0.camel@localhost><004301c6a926$3f246900$8e8b2ed5@Delletje>
	<1153222655.2839.126.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <009501c6aa8f$07ca1fd0$8e8b2ed5@Delletje>

*quote*
> I would like to see the guidelines being adopted.  The people in
> question are doing a lot of work on making them more possible to adopt
> and it would be great to see that begin to happen.  In the future, I
> expect it will; is just a matter of when.
*quote end*

I have some issues with the guidelines as how they look now (completely 
useless) and I think the Game Accessibility Patterns (as well as some other 
ideas presented at Develop Brighton) are a far more useful tool for 
developers instead of blindly copying a W3C format. My issues are that the 
the "guidelines" have been developed not only using the IGDA GA White Paper 
without contacting the IGDA GA-SIG (and shamelessly literally copying 
content from it as well), as well as that no representative from the 
professional game industry has been involved (who probably who have objected 
to the majority, if not all, of the guidelines). What are your opinions 
about this, Matthew? For example:

"5.6 Use explicit auditory feedback and rewards
Auditory feedback and rewards should be explicit and easy to understand."

Does this mean: explicit rewards? explicit auditory rewards? just rewards? 
what is a reward? that you win? that you gain an item? that a gamer can 
create his own t-shirt in the Sims 2? And then it says: P1 for ALL ... 
explicit auditory feedback and rewards for the deaf?

K, just one example but I think it says it all...

*quote*
> It is a shame to hear about the organisational issues but it sounds like
> you recovered from that given the participants :-).  I look forward to
> hearing more about it.
*quote end*

Ernest Adams is likely to participate in the Game Accessibility Book we are 
writing - either a foreword but maybe even a chapter. Ernest Adams' new 
upcoming book, by the way, does already include an appendix concerning game 
accessibility.

*quote*
> That's the plan -- are you going there too?
*quote end*

No, unfortunately not, or something weird should happen.... if I could I 
would :)

Greets,

Richard 



From rbennett at southlink.us  Tue Jul 18 21:09:33 2006
From: rbennett at southlink.us (Richard Bennett)
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 16:09:33 -0400
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] Is this still working?
References: <1153061518.3689.0.camel@localhost><000401c6a907$7e157b00$347a0518@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<1153222393.2839.122.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <009001c6aaa6$1ba26b40$c9ad1c42@gadolum18z9hrn>

Yes, I too am glad that this list is here for questions that I have had, and 
knowing me, will have. It is just that as seems to be with everyone else, 
life has picked up, and I am just trying to keep up, and it isn't so easy 
right now to stay up with the life I am having this quarter at school, but 
hopefully, it will slow down some and I can get back to programming soon, 
because I really do miss it, but what is so frustrating is that I think I am 
about through re-coding a game that I am working on, but can't get time to 
work out the logical errors in the game. Anyways talk to everyone later.
BEAN 



From k4nkz at comcast.net  Wed Jul 19 10:59:07 2006
From: k4nkz at comcast.net (K4NKZ Jim Ardin)
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 05:59:07 -0400
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] a test just to see if I am still on them
Message-ID: <000301c6ab19$fa7b6240$6401a8c0@DH305Q91>


***   ---   ***   ---   ***
Have A Nice Day, cause somebody should!
>From Jim eMail = K4NKZ at comcast.net


From mvfegund at juno.com  Thu Jul 20 00:19:15 2006
From: mvfegund at juno.com (Ivan Fegundez)
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 17:19:15 -0600
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] testing
Message-ID: <006901c6ab89$cd19fee0$1a9cf004@pieceofjunk>

testing. Is any one getting this?

Thanks
Ivan owner-moderator for e-ray games mailing list.
IF YOU HAVE not  joined my e-ray group,  join viea email. Just    send a
email  at:
eraygametalk-subscribe at googlegroups.com
Pleas note, that you're membership will have to be aproved by me befor you
will be able to post or read any messages. This will take no longer than 72
oures.



From matthew at agrip.org.uk  Sun Jul 23 11:54:47 2006
From: matthew at agrip.org.uk (Matthew T. Atkinson)
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 11:54:47 +0100
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] Is this still working?
In-Reply-To: <009501c6aa8f$07ca1fd0$8e8b2ed5@Delletje>
References: <1153061518.3689.0.camel@localhost>
	<004301c6a926$3f246900$8e8b2ed5@Delletje>
	<1153222655.2839.126.camel@localhost>
	<009501c6aa8f$07ca1fd0$8e8b2ed5@Delletje>
Message-ID: <1153652087.2874.25.camel@localhost>

Very interesting that you mention design patterns; they have cropped up
at a few conferences/workshops I've been to lately.  I was not aware of
their use in a game accessibility context.

I was also not aware that the game accessibility guidelines had copied
like that from IGDA; that is incredibly bad practise, to say the least.

My opinion is that the idea is a good one, but clearly it needs industry
participation and more well-defined metrics and examples.  I'm not sure
how far along the methods you have mentioned are (are you using them in
the GA-SIG?) but it certainly seems like you may have the industry on
your side now and I'd say that if either approach is to be successful,
pooling efforts seems like the best thing to do at the moment.

I do agree that (well-done) patterns could well be more useful and look
forward to hearing more about this (probably next week, hehe).

Sorry to hear you're not going to Boston.  It was very hard for me to
make all the required arrangements and get all the required funds, so I
can understand why you are not able to make it.  Let this be a lesson to
any aspiring academics on list: most of the time in academia is spent
trying to raise money for research!

best regards,


-- 
Matthew T. Atkinson <matthew at agrip.org.uk>



From richard at audiogames.net  Sun Jul 23 12:10:38 2006
From: richard at audiogames.net (AudioGames)
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 13:10:38 +0200
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] Is this still working?
References: <1153061518.3689.0.camel@localhost><004301c6a926$3f246900$8e8b2ed5@Delletje><1153222655.2839.126.camel@localhost><009501c6aa8f$07ca1fd0$8e8b2ed5@Delletje>
	<1153652087.2874.25.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <000e01c6ae48$a0c37440$6401a8c0@Laptop>

Hi,

Thanks for your reply! You might find this interesting:

http://www.eelke.com/research/IDP/index.html

Eelke (who's also Dutch but is starting out as an assistant professor in 
Reno, USA) was at Develop Brighton as well and he introduced these design 
patterns. He actually was studying Game Interaction Design Patterns from a 
usability point of view, when Robert Florio (also from the SIG and moderator 
on http://www.game-accessibility.com/forum/index.php ) contacted him, saying 
that his patterns were very much like our game accessibility "guidelines" 
(not perfect either - 2 years old already).

About Boston: I probably could have gotten the funding (still have some 
left) but with it being so close to Develop Brighton and with me wanting to 
go to some other conferences this your probably too, I initially decided not 
to go. However, after Develop Brighton, I wished I didn't make that 
decision, since Boston is turning out to be a nice conference as well.

Anyway, talk to Michelle, she'll get you aboard. And yes, industry 
participation is the most important thing. When web accessibility started, 
it started together with webdesigners! Game accessibility started without 
the industry, and most (Academic) projects still continue to do so. That's 
the difference with www.game-accessibility.com and the GA-SIG. We encourage 
collaboration and address the industry at game conferences, instead of 
trying to spread the message among fellow researchers at ICT and/or 
impairment-related conferences.

Greets,

Richard



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Matthew T. Atkinson" <matthew at agrip.org.uk>
To: "Friendly informal list for those new to AG development" 
<agdev-newbies at lists.agdev.org>
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2006 12:54 PM
Subject: Re: [AGDev-newbies] Is this still working?


> Very interesting that you mention design patterns; they have cropped up
> at a few conferences/workshops I've been to lately.  I was not aware of
> their use in a game accessibility context.
>
> I was also not aware that the game accessibility guidelines had copied
> like that from IGDA; that is incredibly bad practise, to say the least.
>
> My opinion is that the idea is a good one, but clearly it needs industry
> participation and more well-defined metrics and examples.  I'm not sure
> how far along the methods you have mentioned are (are you using them in
> the GA-SIG?) but it certainly seems like you may have the industry on
> your side now and I'd say that if either approach is to be successful,
> pooling efforts seems like the best thing to do at the moment.
>
> I do agree that (well-done) patterns could well be more useful and look
> forward to hearing more about this (probably next week, hehe).
>
> Sorry to hear you're not going to Boston.  It was very hard for me to
> make all the required arrangements and get all the required funds, so I
> can understand why you are not able to make it.  Let this be a lesson to
> any aspiring academics on list: most of the time in academia is spent
> trying to raise money for research!
>
> best regards,
>
>
> -- 
> Matthew T. Atkinson <matthew at agrip.org.uk>
>
> _______________________________________________
> AGDev-newbies mailing list
> AGDev-newbies at lists.agdev.org
> http://lists.agdev.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/agdev-newbies 



From richard at audiogames.net  Fri Jul 28 15:54:49 2006
From: richard at audiogames.net (AudioGames.net)
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 16:54:49 +0200
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] What Do You Think About These Two Accessible Game
	Design Competitions?
Message-ID: <00b901c6b255$c6981de0$8e8b2ed5@Delletje>

Hi Folks,

This list has been very quiet in relation to the Retro Remakes 2006 Big Competition [1] (http://www.retroremakes.com/comp2006) and the Accessibility Game Coding Content [2] (http://www.donationcoder.com/Contests/agame). Anyone here busy with it?

Greets,

Richard



[1] The Retro Remakes 2006 Big Competition - Promoting Accessibility In Games, has just begun! Programmers have 3 months to make the best remake they possibly can, with over ?4,000 worth of prizes up for grabs this year. The goal is to make "Good remakes of good games that anyone can play, regardless of their ability". So this includes games for people with visual disabilities!

[2] Donationcoder.com (http://www.donationcoder.com/) holds an accessible game design contest from Jun. 1, 2006 to Sep. 1, 2006. The task is to invent and program a game in one of two possible categories: audio games and a one-switch game. Prize-winners can gain over $5,000 worth of prizes!



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From rbennett at southlink.us  Fri Jul 28 22:18:20 2006
From: rbennett at southlink.us (Richard Bennett)
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 17:18:20 -0400
Subject: [AGDev-newbies] What Do You Think About These Two Accessible
	GameDesign Competitions?
References: <00b901c6b255$c6981de0$8e8b2ed5@Delletje>
Message-ID: <002c01c6b28b$5ad589e0$86ad1c42@gadolum18z9hrn>

I wish I could be busy withat type of coding at the moement, but 3 classes at school has taken all of my coding time. I can't even work/polish up a game that I have and get all the logical errors out cause of homework. That is where I have been, what about everyone else?
BEAN
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